How I would have done to Frost DK Talent Tree

Classes Death Knight
1

1-1 (Frost Strike) - Unchanged
2-1 (Obliterate) - Unchanged
2-2 (Howling Blast) - Unchanged
3-1 (Killing Machine) - Unchanged
3-2 (Might of the Frozen Wastes/Threat of Thassarian) - Added

Might of the Frozen Wastes

When wielding a 2-handed weapon, abilities that consume Killing Machine increases their damage done by 25% and also allows Obliterate to damage X yds around the affected target. If no other targets are affected by this, the damage increased by 50% instead.

Might of the Frozen Waste also increases your Critical Damage by 15%.

Threat of Thassarian

When dual-wielding, learn Empowered Rune Weapon. If Empowered Rune Weapon is learned from the general class tree, gain a charge of it instead.

Threat of Thassarian also increases your Frost Strike Damage by 25%.

Context: The goal of 3-2 is to make a defined subspec weapon of choice that both have different scaling.

Problem: With Might of the Frozen waste only increases Obliterate by 30% with greater KM Weight in contrast to an additional runeforge (that is most likely will be a 15% strength increase proc) with greater KM Frequency will result in 2h Frost DK to be focused on Concentrated Burst with one ability while DW Frost DK will scale naturally on all other abilities especially in a cleave environment with a huge damage difference.

Solution: Give 2H Frost a scaling that affects all other abilities especially that consumes KM that which competes with the strength increase in a form of Critical Damage increase as well as allowing Obliterate to AoE. Give DW a charge of ERW if they learned one and increase the damage of Frost Strike. With addition of Critical Damage for 2H and Strength Proc for DW, both subspecs will have different stat priorities.

Conclusion: Empower Rune Weapon and Might of the Frozen Wastes are removed from further down the tree and are merged into 3-2. Since 2H would most likely travel down to the left side of the tree and DW would most likely travel down to the right. 3-2 will allow flexibility within a tree regardless of weapon of choice.

3-3 (Rime) - Unchanged
4-1 (Improved Killing Machine) - Changed from Unleashed Frenzy, remains 1 point talent.
4-2 (Improved Obliterate) - Changed from Runic Command, remains 2 point talent.
4-3 (Improved Frost Strike) - Unchanged, remains 2 point talent.
4-4 (Improved Rime) - Transposed with Remorseless Winter, now a 1 point talent for 150% Howling Blast damage increase.
5-1 (Murderous Efficiency) - Changed from Improved Obliterate, 1 point talent.
5-2 (Pillar of Frost) - Path now accessible from 3-2.
5-3 (Remorseless Winter) - Transposed with Improved Rime.

NOTE: 5-3 should be a square, not a circle.

6-1 (Frigid Executioner/Rage of the Frozen Champion) - Unchanged
6-2 (Runic Command) - Moved from 4-2.
6-3 (Cold Heart/Inexorable Assault) - Unchanged
6-4 (Accelerated Cold/Frozen Velocity) - Changed from Frozen Pulse/Avalanche.

Accelerated Cold

While Empowered Rune Weapon is active, for each rune spent gives you 1% additional Haste, 2% additional Movement Speed and reduces the cooldown of Empower Rune Weapon by 4%.

NOTE: If 4% is a bit much, it can be either 3% or 4% of the current cooldown. You do not keep the stacking Haste and Movement Speed upon refreshing ERW.

Frozen Velocity

While Empowered Rune Weapon is active, you gain 15% haste and 30% additional movement speed.

6-5 (Biting Cold) - Unchanged
6-6 (Frostscythe) - Transposed with Chill Streak and Enduring/Piercing Chill.
7-1 (Eradicating Blows) - Changed from Murderous Efficiency. Also includes Glacial Advance.
7-2 (Enduring Strength) - Unchanged.
7-3 (Frostwhelp’s Indignation) - Unchanged.
7-4 (Gathering Storm) - Now a chokepoint node in place of Empowered Rune Weapon.

Gathering Storm

Each Rune spent during Remorseless Winter increases its damage by 10%. This can stack up to 10 times.
Each Global spent on Runic Power extends the duration of Remorseless Winter by 0.5 sec.

PROPOSITION: Do you think Gathering Storm would be better if Runic Power is contributing to its duration increase and not inflate the value of runes?

And I know what you’re thinking “BuT iT’s gOnNa lAsT fOreVAh wItH BrEaTh”. It says for each GLOBAL spend on RP. Considering BoS does not use GCD, it won’t affect it.

8-1 (Glacial Advance) - Unchanged.
8-2 (Bonegrinder) - Unchanged.
8-3 (Everfrost) - Unchanged.
8-4 (Chill Streak) - Transposed with Frostscythe. Ability is unchanged.
9-1 (Glacial Assault/Glacial Onslaught) - Added.

Glacial Assault

Consuming Killing Machine fires a Glacial Advance through your target.

Glacial Onslaught

Glacial Advance no longer has a cooldown and its damage is increased by X%.

QUERY: How much damage increase does Glacial Onslaught would need to compete with Glacial Assault? Because it is very possible that Frost Strike would be obsolete when Glacial Onslaught is allocated.

Worst case scenario. Glacial Onslaught might be scrapped since Glacial Assault will always be more Global Efficient.

Context: Glacial Advance is a 2H Frost’s remedy to apply Razorice within an area. While Frostscythe would be DW’s remedy to apply Razorice within an area. It is also crucially important for 2h Frost to use Glacial Advance to apply Razorice to begin with and is what made it viable in 9.2 while DW is still meta.

9-2 (Cold-Blooded Rage) - Unchanged. Now includes Glacial Advance.
9-3 (Snow Avalanche) - Node Added. Ability renamed but unchanged.

Snow Avalanche

Casting Howling Blast with Rime active causes jagged icicles to fall on enemies nearby your target, dealing (21.4% of Attack power) Frost damage.

9-4 (Frostwyrm’s Fury) - Unchanged. Now accessible from Enduring Strength (7-2) and Frostwhelp’s Indignation (7-3)
9-5 (Death’s Due) - Node Added. Ability Changed.

Death’s Due (Replaces Death and Decay)

Corrupts the target ground, causing [(3.6036% of Attack power) * 11] Shadowfrost damage over 10 sec to targets within the area.

Enemies damaged by this deal 1% reduced damage to you, up to a maximum of 8% and their power is transferred to you as an equal amount of Strength.

Context: The right side of the tree consists of consistent damaging abilities such as Remorseless Winter and Breath of Sindragosa. Considering Death’s Due is an ability that is from a realm of eternal winter, it’d make sense that it does Shadowfrost Damage with its beta state.

NOTE: You can STILL cleave with Obliterate thanks to the general class tree.

9-6 (Invigorating Freeze) - Unchanged.
9-7 (Enduring Chill/Piercing Chill) - Transposed with Frostscythe. Effects are unchanged.
10-1 (Icecap/Obliteration) - Unchanged. Icecap also includes Glacial Advance.
10-2 (Slab Avalanche) - Added.

Slab Avalanche (3 Minute Cooldown)

Spends all your Runic Power to call down a giant slab of ice to your target, dealing Frost Damage in the area.

The damage and area is increased based on the amount of Runic Power spent as well as the target’s missing health. Secondary targets in an area suffer the damage modifier based on the original target.

Context: The left side of the tree consists of abilities that revolves around concentrated damage with Obliterate and Cold Heart. Think of Bolvar throwing 3 blocks of ice throwing at Sylvanas. Those are Slab Avalanches. Slab Avalanches are very dangerous and is lethal.

10-3 (Absolute Zero) - Unchanged.
10-4 (Withered Ground/Rampant Transference) - Added.

Withered Ground

Increases the damage and area of effect of Death’s Due by 100%. The area of effect of Death’s Due decreases to increase the damage instead for each damaging tick by 10%.

Rampant Transference

Increases the strength gained from Death’s Due by additional 1% and lasts 2 seconds longer. You also generate additional Runic Power equal to the amount of total strength acquired from Death’s Due.

10-5 (Breath of Sindragosa) - Unchanged.

What do you guys think? I believe this is my second version doing this.

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Some nice ideas here that won’t break the bank in regards to design time.

They need to look at the Death Knights in their cinematics for ideas. Bolvar V Slyvannas for one. You COULD argue that we should have a smoke bomb style ability utilising frozen mist. Or utilising our death grip to throw big chunks of ice and things at people.

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I believe that’s what I mean by making Slab Avalanche.

Slabs are a big chunks of ice falling from the mountain. It’s very deadly.

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Why more splitting of the spec? This type of design didnt work before, what makes people think it could work now?

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I do not understand what you mean by “splitting”.

Can you elaborate?

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I think what they mean is “Options bad. Please homogenize everything for my dinky brain”

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I mean

Which essentially splits the spec.

Also, since you want to insult people, the last time something like what the OP is proposing Frost was in the literal gutter being beat out by a prot warrior talent.

https
://www.warcraftlogs .com/zone/statistics/8#dataset=90&aggregate=amount

Rather not go back to that bad design.

Not to mention the ToT passive doesnt mesh well with BoS since you dont use Frost Strike that much so you are basically just getting ERW for free for and that is it.

So sorry for this “dinky brain” as you say, is looking at the past where this design failed, and looking at how things dont mesh well with each other and why splitting the specs is such a bad idea. Even now the spec is kind of split and 2h is at best ~7% behind single target.

Not only that but the 4pc would be bad to implement as well not only for some reasons that was mentioned in other threads, but because it puts even more power into that one button press and it would be the first thing to be nerfed because no only would it make Obliterate a crit, and do frost damage, and do a glacial advance and also apply RI to the target. Not to mention crit levels being low some even saying 27% wasnt even in early SL.

The spec needs work, not a split.

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The existence of the two weapon choices already splits the spec: One is concentrated on Obliterate and the other already scales with everything else. With the existence of 4pc this remains true for DW while bringing 2H in a realm of viability but not competitive (EDIT: For PvE anyway).

I talked to Gorkorth from Area 52 and I’ve thought about the state of the two weapon choices and the most elegant solution was to make MotFW baseline, make RW apply Razorice Each Tick and KM procs from other abilities to give more control and make the spec more fluid. I like his idea better than mine and I should honorably mention that.

I do not condone the Warrior’s insulting behavior. All I asked was to elaborate on what you mean by splitting and you answered appropriately.

The Warcraft Log was the time when Necrotic Plague was a thing. I’m surprised that Unholy was behind Demo where Ion arrogantly prefered people NOT to play and nerfed all of their kits by 25% and they still performed well since Demo scales very well. Probably the biggest nerf I’ve ever seen before the stuff I’ve seen in PoE lately.

Also to remember that Frost historically lagged behind in scaling and deeps in WoD compared to Unholy. With the introduction of new abilities like Remorseless Winter, Frostwyrm’s Fury, abilities that scales well with our Mastery: Frost does not have this issue anymore. In fact, Frost currently outscales Unholy including rot damage.

WoD Frost was also the time when Obliterate was dealing pure physical damage. Something that’s not the case now with the introduction of KM58.

In the talent tree, you would need to allocate into OG GA, Eradicating Blows (in this post), one of the two nodes beforehand, ME and KM58 (Now Improved KM). The 4pc is deep into the left side of the tree.

The Left side of the Frost Tree focused on KM usage and Obliterate. Scales well with 2H.
The Right side of the Frost Tree is focused on AoE application and feeding Remorseless Winter. Scales well with DW.

With the absence of 4pc and the arbitrary existence of a cooldown behind Glacial Advance, how would a 2-hander apply Razorice? And if a 2-Hander uses Razorice, how would he keep up the scaling against DW’s 15% strength proc increase with more frequent KM procs along with an ability that applies Razorice in an area?

Even if ToT passive doesn’t mesh well with BoS, it will probably still scale just as well. Not to mention, I proposed a choice node between Accelerated Cold/Frozen Velocity to increase the scaling power of DW in comparison to 2H’s Crit Damage increase and an AoE Obliterate.

Currently, the deltas are…

DW - KM is more frequent; 2H - KM has more weight
DW - Has an extra runeforge; 2H - Has 30% damage increase on ONE ability.

So long as DW has an extra runeforge, it will always have an extra variable that will outscale 2H. Be it 15% Strength Proc or 20% Increased RP Generation Proc as well as RP cap.

The predicted deltas on these changes are…

DW - KM is more frequent; 2H - KM has more weight
DW - Can have RI in MH with FScy apply in an area; 2H - Can allocate 4pc node in GA to apply RI in an area.
DW - Can have FC in OH with 15% strength proc scales with Haste; 2H - Naturally increases 15% Critical Damage scales with Crit.
DW - Have an extra charge of ERW to increase your haste even further with AC/FV; 2H - Have Obliterate do AoE and make KM affect other abilities like FScy.

And DW will remain scale very well with BoS. I do want BoS to be an optional play because iirc BoS being meta is just not really a fun thing to do. DW increasing the damage of Frost Strike is intentional.

Or… We could go with Gorkorth’s idea to make MotFW baseline, make RW apply RI for 2-handers and make KM much more controlled.

I do agree that Frost needs work though and this is just my attempt to do so for Crits and Giggles.

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And it never should have split anything. Its something that more and more people are talking about. Monks dont have this problem, they can pick and choose whatever they want. Why is that?

Those logs are basically backed up from the previous tier as well though Frost wasnt as far behind, it was still competing with Gladiator Stance. It was a bad time for Frost. If you then look at Legion, the Emerald Nightmare was about mid pack, Nighthold was top 5.

https://
www
.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/11#dataset=90&aggregate=amount

https://
www .warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10#dataset=90&aggregate=amount

Obliterate dealt pure physical damage for 90% of its existence.

Trying to dictate what weapon does what is the problem and always has been. Why cant DW scale well with KM and Obliterate? Why cant 2h scale well with BoS and the rest?

Just make MotFW give FC since there are abilities that apply RI if its on your weapon like Frostscythe. You dont need anything elaborate to fix something so simple.

If you want 2h to get what DW gets… why not just play DW? Why go through all of this when you can just advocate what you want from 2h to be made into talents to be picked up for that playstyle and gain the benefits of both?

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With my changes, they can. They just scale differently with different weights.

Yes, DW can scale well with KM and Obliterate. You can go to the left side of the tree as DW and scale just as well since you have a FC proc.
2H can scale with BoS and the rest. You can go to the right side of the tree and still prioritize crit just as much since 2H inherently has Crit Damage Increase.

You aren’t dictating anything. You’re simply deciding what different weight of scaling you can have between 2H and DW and also decide which side of the tree you’ll commit into.

Alright, what about KM delta? Surely one gets more frequent procs than the other. I’m not inherently against a more simple way to implement MotFW for 2-handers. But something else has to give to equalize between the two.

So you’re perfectly okay with 2h will remain outscaled by DW and be DoA in DF with the absence of 4pc?

I don’t understand this sentiment.

Considering the logs were in Legion, where 2-handed was not existent and mostly fixed the scaling issue Frost had in WoD. The evidence is circumstantial in favor for Frost being a DW spec.

I already covered my point with Frost’s lack of scaling in WoD.

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That dictates how they play or what you want to do with them because they scale through different means.

As others have said, make it from from an ability than auto attack crits. Some have suggested from Frost Fever for instance, or something else. Bring back Rune Strike and give it a chance per use to proc KM.

What does that have to do with my question, sounds like you dont actually want to answer the question at hand. My question had absolutely nothing to do with the 4pc or anything like that. It was asking if you want 2h to have what DW has, why not just play DW and advocate for the things that 2h has, which is basically just Obliterate damage at this point, to be put into the talent tree so everyone can have everything in terms of gameplay?

It sounds everyone is in agreement that DW has more so I dont see the problem just putting 30% increase Obliterate damage into a talent for everyone to pick up that isnt dependent on your weapon choice.

Well, it is a DW spec. But the entire reasoning for me posting those logs were to show when they were able to focus on one thing and only had to balance Frost against other specs, it did well, much better than being in the gutter in WoD right? In Uldir (8.1) frost dk was number 1. Battle for Dazar’alor it was mid pack. In Eternal Palace it was upper mid / lower top however you want to look at it (7th). And then it Nyalotha it was mid pack.

Even in SL it did pretty well. Cant really pull up those logs for some reason, probably due to the fated stuff but in in those its doing well too, both Unholy and Frost.

I just see the importance of having 2h if it brings in this much conversation about how to fix it.

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My point exactly. But I guess to each of their own?

That’s another way to fix the KM proccing from AA.

Not that it’s a bad thing. :slight_smile:

I don’t really need to answer it because it’s painfully obvious that I would go DW if I need the scaling DW has. DW outscales 2H because as long as it has an extra runeforge. The more applicable that runeforge is, the heavier DW scales.

For instance, pre-4pc, it outscales 2H by 15% strength proc. What’s better, a 15% strength proc or 30% Obliterate damage increase?

Okay, now that you have a source of RI application from 4pc, it outscales 2H by extra RP cap and extra RP generation proc because of BoS. If you are going Obliteration, you’d be 2H.

4pc made the difference between 2H and DW a lot less to make Obliteration a lot more viable while BoS will remain competitive.

Cool! So DW will remain a runeforge ahead of 2H with various effect with more frequent KM procs! What does 2H get? An Obliterate Dammie increase with greater KM weight.

There are solutions to make KM procced from abilities rather than AA crits. One of them is from you. But to go back to my original question:

  • If I’m ever going 2-Handed Frost, first… Why should I? Which runeforge should I give up as Frost? If I use Razorice, how can I keep up with DW’s Strength Proc? If I use FC, how can I keep up with DW’s RI?

You deflected that I should just play DW which I don’t really find constructive. And hey, to each of their own have creative ways to get the delta between DW and 2H closer or… eliminate the difference between them in terms of KM procs altogether.

Personally I like the idea of DW having frequent KM procs and 2H have greater KM weights to capitalize their difference but if that’s even problematic, it can be streamlined. FOR KM ANYWAY.

15% Strength Proc is marginally better and more practical than 30% Obliterate Damage Increase in PvE. In PvP, there are a lot more 2 handers since FC can be inconsistent.

I mean the difference between 2H and DW Frost has always been contentious. I believe you are right about Frost being in a much better spot in Legion and beyond. It’s not like there is one ability that people are grown very tired to use at this point. -COUGH- BoS -COUGH-

Currently Frost outscales Unholy and afaik, Unholy is a jumbo of a mess with the introduction of Festering Wuunds and lots of cooldowns costing globals.

Frost is a DW spec, it’s also a 2H spec. It’s both. Should be both and should coexist. At least that’s what I’ve been trying to do with MotFW/ToT node. More simpler solutions to close the gap between 2h/DW exists and I don’t mind them because they made TG baseline for Fury for some odd reason while keeping SMF in the talent tree. MotFW currently have a short end of a stick locked behind the most annoying passive in the game: UNLEASHED FRENZY.

Frost is all and well. It will be better in DF. It will continue to strive in DF. The problem with it currently is extremely one dimensional with no alternatives. 2H will be DoA with the absence of 4pc while DW Rolling RW build with BoS will remain scale disproportionately across the tree.

Solving that issue is the objective of Frost DK tree and what I would overall do it. Some are insane; some are creative.

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Well not really DW is superior for monks

We could have that debate all day and not get anywhere; solution is just bring 2H right up to be competitive with DW in every facet - the means are irrelevant, the choice to play either is what matters

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Not to mention it will be less punishing to tank if gathering blood gear can still be useful with frost gear

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Its not a debate, its a question to try to understand where people are coming from. If the end goal is to bring 2h to be competitive with DW in every facet then why not just play DW? If the goal is to give 2h 2 runeforges why not just play DW that already gets it? If the goal is to give 2h the same amount of KM procs why not just play DW that already gets it? If the goal is to open up more build opportunities as DW why not just play DW that already gets it? Thats what is so hard to understand to be completely honest.

Also is there really a choice to be made if both are the same? To me none of this actually makes any sense of why go through all this work just to get where something already is and im trying to understand it.

By how much and why?

You are still dictating the style of play for those weapons, limiting each weapon means you just have to get 3 weapons to cover all of your bases.

Thats a no brainer… a 15% strength proc since it amplifies all of your damage. So if its better then why did people want MotFW back with the Obliterate steroid? Ive read the threads and it absolutely exists out there.

I asked a simple question to try to understand people. Its kind of telling that people dont want to answer it though. Just trying to understand why its such a big deal to play 2h instead of DW.

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I don’t think you can swap equipment in the middle of combat. It’s either DW or 2H on player’s choice. That is a good thing. You don’t really have to get 3 weapons to “cover all your bases”.

With that logic, you have to get 4 weapons to cover Fury’s basics which I don’t think that’s really the case.

People want MotFW back because people want to play 2H as Frost. 2H Frost was known to have big Obliterates and the passive tuning towards it reflects on that.

Problem is, 2H is a lot less practical than DW which is what these changes to fix. There are many solutions to it by making MotFW having a free runeforge with controlled KM delta.

People like to play 2H Frost. Arthas was more or less 2H Frost and captures that fantasy. Frostmourne was a 2-handed weapon. Arthas mainly has Frost abilities like Howling Blast, Frozen Tempest, abilities that enhance Frostmourne with Frost Magic.

Mordekaiser from League of Legends is also has a fantasy of 2H Frost DK. He just painted metal than Frost Magic (Blackfrost Mordekaiser when?) and one of his abilities is literally called Obliterate with his giant mace named Nightfall.

It’s aesthetically pleasing. A giant hulking frozen death juggernaut that strikes people with heavy blows with their giant weapon. DW is death by a thousand cuts in comparison to 2H. 2H shatters enemies with massive blows.

Hope Grievus can expand on why DW is better for monks because I have no knowledge on that class other than basics of Fistweaving.

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I do recall giving feedback against bringing back MotFW when they announced the return of 2H and I wasn’t the only one, because a lot of us saw the balancing issues coming from a mile away. Bringing back 2H was a great choice, but creating subspecs was not.

I’m pretty sure the DK was heavily represented as a 2H class in the art/media when it was first introduced so that’s a strong part of it. Personally I didn’t start playing DK to use DW, that’s for rogues/shamans/monks/etc.

Despite all the metrics and metas, class fantasy still matters and many players never wanted to be a DW DK, just as I’m sure some love playing DW (for whatever reason :person_shrugging: ).

That’s why I think the devs should do everything possible to give 2H and DW parity and allow for gameplay choices via the talents. You want strong 1/2 target damage and big Obliterates? Go Obliteration. You want strong cleave every 2mins? Go BoS. Maybe allow icecap to be a middle ground with good ST and consistent cleave. Anyway, the choice should be in the talents, not the weapons!

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Arthas is objectively closer to Unholy in just about all media, but the context I’ve always received is he’s the perfect Death Knight in that he can (or could) utilize all forms of magic (Blood, Frost, & Unholy) at their maximum.

Because this is still an RPG and player choice of how to play out their class shouldn’t be weapon dependent. Elemental Shamans aren’t suddenly 5% worse for using a staff instead of MH+Shield; Fury isn’t 5% worse for using 1-handers over 2-handers (when Jaithys/Gavel isn’t an option); WW isn’t 5% behind when using 2h vs DW; why should Frost DK be any different?

+1. I remember the joy on these forums over it’s return and I remember not having much support when explaining why it wasn’t a good passive to come back.

As long as KM is based on autos & MoTFW’s Obliterate boost exist there will always be a balancing issue though.

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Class fantasy does matter and that has been gone over over and over and over again. Regardless of that, Blizzard wanted DK to have DW somewhere in it and that turned out to be frost. They said in an interview that was linked that I cant find that if they couldnt get it to work then they would scrap it and have DK be entirely 2h. But it works for frost and works well.

I can tell you exactly why I play DW as Frost, it gets more procs which feels better and its also more complete. Not to mention the berserker feel that it had in wrath.

But its clearly mechanic dependent. It doesnt matter with Elemental shamans because their weapons are basically stat sticks. You dont get more Lava Surge? procs depending on if you have a mh+shield or a staff. Fury is the same way they arent mechanically different. WW isnt mechanically different either. Frost is mechanically different that should be self evident from the simple fact people are trying to work around this mechanical difference.

DW hits the same as a 2h if the 30% Obliterate damage thing wasnt there and you dont factor in RI anywhere. Even back in Wrath the damage isnt far off and currently with DW its actually a little ahead in the ptr/beta which some are saying is a bug but they are about equal.

But, how something plays and how something looks are 2 different things. How something plays can be put on any weapon at any time.

There is also a choice, but I also remember and reading though that 2h megathread is many people said that they just wanted the ability to use a 2h and they didnt care if it was 20% behind… what happened there lol.

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I’d argue that Arthas is biased towards Frost, he would be closer to it since he has many Frost related abilities in WoW and HotS. Two of his three abilities are frost: Howling Blast; Frozen Tempest. Majority of his talents are related to Frost. Frostmourne is an extension of his powers.

But I do agree he’s the perfect DK that utilizes all forms of magic.

Which is why I love your solution for MotFW’s RW applying RI and Frost Strike/Rime proccing KM instead of AA. Eliminating KM delta entirely between 2h and DW and give the spec much more control.

That sounds as likely as bringing Presences and Necrotic Plague back, however.

It’s just one of those things that shouldn’t be removed in the first place. Yes, people are happy that 2H is back, impractical or not. Nobody is excited about taking something away from players unless you’re a really spiteful one.

Impractical subspec is still impractical. Which is why…

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