let me give you a thing, then you can go sit down.
Sylvanas thought about her people. They had come far from their decimated origins, the yearning, confused mob of fresh corpses huddled about the ruins of Lordaeron’s wrecked capital. The Forsaken were truly a nation now: a fetid, gore-caked, hideous mass of lifeless husks, skilled in combat, devastating with the arcane arts, and unhindered by fetters of morality. They had been honed into the perfect weapon. Her weapon. And they had struck the killing blow for which she had built them. She cared nothing for their fate.
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!"
exactly. this is what i was trying to say. she has ALWAYS been like this! you think the banshee queen was so naive to be tricked by varimathras? she was working with the nathrezim.
AAAAND there it is. People so blinded by who she was in life that they are completely incapable of seeing what she became in death. Also, she has never, NEVER made such sacrifices for the Forsaken. THEY sacrifice for HER, not really the other way around.
Yeah I really do think that’s what it ultimately cuts down to.
To be honest? I will level with them here on that matter, I totally get that and I know where it comes from. It comes from either a strong desire to have more complex characters in the story or it comes from a desire to have more dark-themed heroes in the story that don’t quite resemble the superfluous traditional Light hero themes that seem far more prominent in the story.
I definitely really get that, I like characters like Blade, Spawn, or Eric Draven from The Crow. I think that’s why I sympathize more with those pro-Sylvanas crowd that were more against her characterization since Cataclysm rather than just her characterization recently, because personally I think Cataclysm was the real true expansion that took Sylvanas on a direction that many should have found disagreeable. But back then, people used weird excuses like “oh the Gilneans deserved because they walled themselves off” or “oh the humans deserved it because they forsook the Forsaken” and it went on and on like that that it just became so bizarre to me that Teldrassil was the final sticking point for people.
Instead of criticizing the story then and there, people just accepted Cataclysm’s take on Sylvanas when that should have been the starting point of all the complaining to begin with.
Yup. TBH, there is no conceptual difference between Teldrassil and Gilneas. The only reason that Gilneas wasn’t as much of a Blight BBQ as Teldrassil turned out to be was because Sylvanas was unaware of the evacuation method being used. Seriously, this THE CANON reason there weren’t more civilians deaths at Gilneas … she FULLY intended to blight an entire Kingdom into the ground.
Also, there was just the functional writing stuff. Like, yes the Horde is culpable in Teldrassil … however refraining it like they did (where her decision to burn it had NOTHING to do with the Horde) … does dilute the blame a bit on the Red Faction. Its a twisted way of thinking, but making our side ALSO victims of her someone does prove to shift blame (even if just a little bit). We were unwitting tools in a game we didn’t know we were playing; by a leader we thought had our best interest at heart (despite her atrocious methods of pursuing that interest).
Oh for Pete’s sake. The two instances that you’re referencing are when she was manipulating Saurfang into getting on board with her war plan (which we know that she had ulterior motives for), and in the middle of a battle to rally the troops. She was absolutely playing to the crowd there. That’s something that she has demonstrated in the past as well. Garrosh even called her out on it during the Cataclysm quests in Silverpine.
Any time that we’ve seen her internal monologue, starting with Edge of Night, she has shown that she has not and does not care for the Horde or the Forsaken except as tools. First it was for her vengeance against the LK, and since then it’s been to prevent her from going to WoW-hell. She has shown some passing level of affinity or pity for the Forsaken, but only if they’re doing exactly what she wants them to, as demonstrated by how she handled the Desolate Council situation. Which by the way, they were not founded to usurp Sylvanas or whatever other madness that you claimed they were. They were formed entirely to organize and help lead the Forsaken in Sylvanas’ absence. Their founder/leader even had every intent to step down as soon as Sylvanas came back to the UC.
If you need proof from farther back; we’ve known that she was like that towards the Horde since before Cataclysm. There’s the Vanilla Forsaken intro of course that states their alliance of convenience with the Horde, and then during the ICC dungeons, she frequently belittles the Horde soldiers that are killed while fighting the Scourge.
So I get that you’re unhappy with the direction that they chose for your favorite character, but turning on the Horde is very much in character for her.
Here’s the problem, it’s either plot induced stupidity that has allowed Sylvanas to grow into a threat, or it’s plot induced stupidity that’s made her so antagonistic. Whatever they do with her character is bound to piss someone off.
I mean I’ve never thought she was pro horde, but people were rather dogged about that being wrong around and since legion’s beta until now. I wish I could remember some of their names. some nightborne guy specifically.
If she was so hell bent on playing the crowd then why the hell did she go emo teenager and scream the exact thing that would make that plan fail?
You mean about the time Christie ‘toxic masculinity’ Golden has gotten a hold of her? Yep.
All Forsaken pretty much were. “Alliance of convenience”.
But there’s a difference between Horde and Forsaken, which, now, definitely changed.
Not in this manner, not at all.
She’s never been one for being controlled, and a ‘teamup’ with an Old God is exactly that. She could’ve construed this whole thing without his help/Az, and not Snaped off into the distance, yelling the one thing that would ‘thwart’ her.
Horde being expendable is one thing, but becoming a minion is definitely not in her character, which is exactly what they did with her.
“Oh I’ll just betray N’zoth later.”
Right. No, she’d be smarter than that. At least, she used to be.
Because Saurfang surprised her with the second strike from the split sword, and it caused her veneer to crack for a moment. Angry outbursts when her plans are foiled are something that she’s suffered from since TFT.
Edge of Night was not written by Christie Golden and it was released about 8 or 9 years ago.
You don’t get to discard source material just because you don’t like it.
Yes, the Forsaken in general had that kind of relationship with the Horde at first. Sylvanas was always an extreme case of that attitude towards the Horde, and she has maintained it throughout the lifespan of WoW.
She has always been a double-crossing schemer. More than that, she has always done anything and everything possible to get what she wants, regardless of the costs. So I can absolutely see her striking a deal with the devil in order to avoid being subjected to whatever that death realm was in Edge of Night.
There’s a difference between an outburst and saying the literal one thing that was required to foil whatever it is she wanted. She’s written like an idiot.
Forsaken had no development and suddenly change to being pro-Horde in this expansion. It’s bad writing with no hints of change, it’s just thrown in our faces.
The latter is true, former not so much.
Striking a deal with a thing that is pretty much just another Lich King IE Destroy all the things, make them mine. It’s dumb.
I’m not certain that he did. The BFA trailer poses the idea that Sylvanas is actually pro Horde, and that she understands, in retrospect, what makes the Horde strong. It’s as if she’s recalling a memory of the war, and she’s verbally telling the story to someone.
ALSO I’M REALLY TIRED OF THE FORUMS AUTOMATICALLY EDITING OUT THE QUOTE.
