and that’s relevant…how?
your opinion on anything and everything is irrelevant
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Anyone who supports the way Covenants are right now are pretty much saying screw anyone who likes pushing content. When they come out with a new system, they should consider all parties involved.
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You know people will still go for the abilities right? The stories and zones, those kind of stuff people can do it on their alts, it’s not that important.
Thanks Alaundis… make me laugh while i was drinking 
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Because they’re finally realizing that players are sick of the illusion of choice on a matter, and realizing there will always be a definitive best for any given event so they want to prevent people from flip flopping on a daily basis to actually make an impactful choice.
This is just Aldor and Scryer 2.0.
I mean literally quoted me word for word in my other thread LOL…
Giving the baby their bottle isn’t always the way to do things. If you appease the try-hards now by letting them change them every 5 minutes which is exactly what they want to do because they’re obsessed with the most trifling advantage in every situation to make up for their middling ability to play, they’re going to be the ones most complaining that they are forced to do this because other try-hards are doing it. The result will be bland lacklustre Covenant abilities that nobody cares about because they can be changed at will. I don’t want that. I want it to be a choice and I want the try-hards to take a hit.
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Look at this another troll that can only hate min/maxers.
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Players that want to have impactful choices tend to not even partake in content where that choice can have consequences that mess with progression. The top end players should have the ability to choose since most are more concerned about the gameplay and everyone else should get to have their RP of having the Covenant choice have consequences.
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Covenant abilities should have been a Talent Row. 
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That is what everyone is saying that has issues with the covenant class talents
1/12 isn’t mythic raiding
True, but you need to keep in mind the amount of people who literally will micromanage their entire gameplay around a 2% damage increase are very very few. Even of people who are clearing the content, a lot of them aren’t that hardcore about it.
What you’re noticing is a lot of people who want to pretend like they’re doing world first progression and trying to do all the crazy micromanagement of their characters that they see the best players do but they’re still 4 bosses into Mythic Nyalotha, or below that metric even when half of that raid is free to my knowledge since last I played retail.
Again, you’re talking about literally 500 players tops who this would encompass and I guarantee you the people crying about it now are never going to be at that level of gameplay. I’m saying this as someone who has seen first hand what a top raiding guild is like (Albeit this was back during Dragon Soul) when I was in Blood Legion (US Top at the time). There were a lot of things to squeeze out extra damage points going on among most players in the raid that a lot of people who post on these forums are never going to try and do. For them to try and argue that the inability to change a covenant ability, or the difficulty of changing it is going to lead to them just doing half the damage of somebody else is foolish.
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What about those of us that want a certain aesthetic and the best ability but are not on the same covenant and are not min/maxer raiders or mythic ++ players.
I don’t do high end but I still want the best abilities I can get
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I mean, I don’t have any mythic aspirations. I shoot for heroic progression and that’s it.
The current Covenant choices are still pitiful. Why would I ever pick the Venthyr ability - which has almost no practical use - over the Kyrian ability?
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It’s not because it’s not necessary to min/max to do things that people shouldn’t min/max. There’s some fun to give your best and not feel impeded by a borrowed power system. But as small as you think the reason to not lock the covenants is, the reason to lock big part of your class kit behind them is even smaller. They are small reputations that won’t matter after Shadowlands, nothing of value will be lost when they’re gone and the world will carry on.
People keep saying this, yet it misses the target so much. It is not the true min/maxers people want to spite, if they do it because they want to/that is the way they play then all the more power to them. It is the try hard wannabes that sets the ones in favor of this system off.
Can’t tell the difference? Let me break it up:
True min/maxer: I’ll do research or check a guide (if they are a later player) and then find out when the guide is a bit off or if something works better for me.
Wannabe: The guide says this is top, there are no exceptions anyone who does not do this is a bad player who should not be in groups.Oh, we wiped? must be because someone did not follow the guide even though I failed a mechanic.
I think they do to some extent, but there is one party, maybe a small but VERY LOUD minority, that makes any thing that can be switched mandatory to do so. This is the group that, no matter what content you are doing (even a low M+ or normal raiding) if you don’t follow the meta or meet certain requirements will try to keep you out of or call you bad, Unfortunately, even if this minority is the target, we will likely hit those that just want to min/max because that is how they play.
I’d rather have either a return to old trees or a completely new talent row and just have the covenants boost or change the abilities we have already.
Possible ideas:
Divine toll: give your Holy Shock/Judgement/Avenger’s shield a chance to hit up to 5 targets at once
Serrated Bone Spike: your attacks and abilities have a chance to implant a serrated bone spike in your target causing them to bleed for x damage over y seconds, stacks up to 5
I am sure quite a few covenant abilities could be adjusted for such a system, and it would provide flavor and, at most, minor differences in covenant choice.
Hence why instead the suggestion I made would be creating a breakpoint in multiple aspects of the games. For instance players who get the first 6 bosses down in Nyalotha, time a +20 Key or acquire 2.2k become eligible to start a quest chain that opens up the ability to swap Covenants.
The game would notice that the player is putting in effort in difficult content and would give a helping hand to allow them to be more innovative in their approach to each encounter. Not to mention that a lot of players who do partake in content to that level tend to look at other things to do in between raid or queue times.
The way I suggested keeps both types of players happy.
It’s about the same, you don’t like how people have their fun. That they are more or less serious about it. I play with a guild most of the time to dodge people that don’t have the same mindset that I do when I play this game. People that don’t like other people way of playing the game should do the same, join a guild of everyone that doesn’t min/max if they don’t like to meet min/maxers wannabe or not. Like I know there’s blind progression guilds that won’t look at strats and guides.
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