Works just fine for Blood elves. They managed to tread the line just fine without losing their identity to the overbearing faction mindset.
1 Like
Yeah, when they were actually isolated on Kalimdor and their civilization was allowed to exist within a bubble (also, after they kicked out the remaining Highborne; who were forced to leave Kalimdor to preserve their culture). The idea that somehow them going isolationist AGAIN (in an increasingly shrinking, and rapidly changing) world wont bite them in the butts down the line is absurd.
I get that you believe that the status quo of Kaldorei military supremacy will NEVER change (no matter how much the civilizations around them advance and grow) ⊠but that isnât liable to be the case. Not only that, its not even really that practical for the Kaldorei THEMSELVES to re-adopt a way of life that strongly reflects what they had during the Long Vigil.
They no longer have their Elven Immortality that helped support that sort of civilization; and theyâre NEVER getting it back. The NEs are no longer in a position to just squander 10k years, time is once again a currency with value to them. With the defeat of the Legion the Long Vigil is now over ⊠and it really is about time they put some serious thought in about the âAfterâ.
3 Likes
Do you understnad the difference between Show and Tell? Gregory can say all he wants to, and he might have had a leg to stand on in the RTS, but not whatâs shown in game in the MMORG.
I understand that there are people that believe that matriarchies are an expression of feminism. Theyâre not. Theyâve been Patriarchyâs Bogey-Men (or Bogey-Women? ) since the days of Ancient Greece. Keep in mind to the Greeks that created them, Amazons were monsters, just like Harpies, and Medusae, other creations of Greek misogyny. Villains for Greek male heroes to triumph over.
1 Like
The BEs arenât isolationist. They have isolationist tendencies (like all elves), but they do go out of their way to ensure that they never fully succumb to them.
This is because the LAST time they allowed themselves to fully immerse themselves in isolationism, it resulted in them being so out of touch with what was happening in other parts of the world that they were thoroughly unprepared to deal with that world they sheltered themselves from when it came calling in the form of Arthas.
The Nightborne are in the same boat. They understand that while isolationism has its place, fully investing it in will only blind you the world outside of the sheltered, comfortable one youâve created for yourself. They canât hide away from the world anymoreâŠ
3 Likes
Why?
You make a lot of declarative statements, but you donât actually explain anything.
What makes you think the Long Vigil was 10k years squandered?
An All female Priesthood in a Theocratic Government, and an all female military. Every single man in any position of importance is an exeptional outlier, and has to work twice as hard to compete with the female dominated societyâŠ
It is shown and told. Night Elves are matriarchal. You can deny it all you want. You are wrong.
Yes they are⊠they always have been.
They were reluctant to join the Alliance, and withdrew themselves from the Alliance as soon as the 2nd war was over.
Thereâs also this challenge that races who are immortal - or nearly immortal - face when interacting with races who arenât. Why build relationships with a people who have a lifespan the fraction of your own?
I mean, consider the constant heartbreak of watching your friends wither and die from old age over and over, while youâve barely felt the sands of time.
I donât think itâs arrogance, but more of an aloof demeanor.
1 Like
Why yes. Its an indication of poor storytelling.
They are compared to the Alliance elves. They havenât had their identity compromised, retconned, and taken out front to be beaten repeatedly for cheap drama. The Sinâdorei have managed to interact with the world without losing their home nor identity. The proposals youâve put forward make the Night elves discount high elves. We already have high elves in two forms, we do not need a third.
I know I wanted this thread to be civil, but this annoys me to no end. People who make declarative statements about the Night Elves, saying they need to change from their regressive ways.
They never were regressive. The Long Vigil was not 10k years squandered. It was a time of peace, free of disease, free of poverty, and they had the military might to contend with the combined might of the Alliance and the Horde.
They maintained that for a period of time that is longer than the existence of most other races. Itâs absolutely short sighted and arrogant to say the Night Elves experienced stagnation because lacked mechanized technology⊠They lived within nature, they did not see to dominate it like the shorter lived races.
I happen to think that is a clear example that the Night Elves are more advanced and more forward thinking than any other race.
4 Likes
Iâd imagine after the first ten times youâd probably start to see them in a similar way to a pet, something to enjoy time with while it lives but that you fully expect to die before yourself.
1 Like
No, theyâve just historically looked down on the shorter lived races.
Also, no one said the word âregressiveâ, hell no one even used the word âstagnantâ. The Kaldorei also accomplished their 10k years of peace (mostly peace, there was the War with the Quraji) through territorial isolation (which they no longer really enjoy anymore); and severe homogenization of both race and culture (and would often react rather negatively against those that tried to break the mold). The fact that there was likely little inter-generational drift of beliefs also probably helped immensely to preserve peace, due to their immortality ensuring a sort of âliving codexâ of their culture.
While they donât need to abandon what makes up the cores of the NE culture, the idea that hiding away from the world is going to solve their problems with that world is kind of strange. Part of being mortal is the realization that yes, sometimes adaption is necessary. Also, the reason the BEs havenât lost a lot of their culture is that they already had quite a bit of cultural similarities with the other EK races; and on a more meta level ⊠they are rarely EVER the focus of the story. Outside Suramar, they havenât gotten their own zones or raids since BC. Hell, it often feels like Blizz just forgets they exist sometimes.
3 Likes
When youâve got, quite literally, all the time in the world, those hedges can wait until next decade to be trimmed.
2 Likes
You probably would too when shorter lived races had life spans similar to a house cat.
Whats this even mean? Itâs their ancestral groundâŠ
Having a strong cultural identity is the opposite of cultural homogenization.
The homogenization is coming from the humans, as they are homogenizing the rest of the alliance. I donât want purple humans, thanks.
What are you even talking about? The Night Elves, during the Long Vigil, fought a war on the opposite side of the continentâŠ
Just because they are isolationists doesnât mean they are hiding away. It just means they seek to protect their ancestral home, and preserve their culture. Which, after an event like War of Thorns, they should.
Honestly⊠stop telling me what you think is best for the Night Elves. Itâs very clearly not what the fans want, and very clear that you donât know anything about Nelf lore. Its just getting annoying now.
1 Like
Yeah ⊠something makes me REALLY glad that I donât interpret NE Lore the same way some NE fans seem to. It rings a little to much of âour race and culture are the pinnacle of perfection; and the purity of that perfection should be preserved at all costsâ for my tastes âŠ
10 Likes
When you are near immortal, the chosen people of the Moon Goddess, several Wild Gods, and blessed by Dragon Aspects, it stands to reason one would feel pretty extraordinary.
Aside from that, cultural identity is important. Racial identity is important. I play Night Elves because I like what they are. If I wanted them to be anything else, I would play something else.
Stop homogenizing things. Itâs bad for world building.
1 Like
Crazy how much of that sentiment sounds like something you might hear from Highborne during the era of the Ancient Kaldorei EmpireâŠ
Plus, I donât want to homogenize the Night Elves, Iâve NEVER said that. I simply recognize that part of living a mortal life is realizing that change and adaption is sometimes necessary. Non-eternal life is about making mistakes, learning, and growth. What those changes and adaptations are should depend on the Civilization that makes them (and the circumstances in which they make them), but there is no defined route. Change is a natural part of life ⊠I would think the NEs would appreciate that more than anyone (Malf certainly seemed to in âWolfHeartâ).
Also, nothing quite like Gods playing favorites to ensure that NOBODY other than the race they dote over ever cares about them. Honestly ⊠part of me canât wait till some Draenei with the Vindecaar gets so sick of NE proselytizing about how their Goddess is the ONLY real one (and just flies up there to have a little looksie). ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
4 Likes
And who says their not? Who says they are not already adapted? Why is everyoneâs idea of adaptation just âbe more like humansâ
Everything you have proposed not only serves to homogenize the elves, but also, once again, is the repeat of the same arch we have been getting from them over and over and over again.
I for one am sick of the âWe need time to grow and heal as a peopleâ
I want the old Kaldorei back, who repaid every broken twig with broken bones. I donât want to play bleeding heart victims all the time. Rebuild Darnassus in the husk of Teldrassil. Because like Hell some green skins are going to will the stars to move.
Now get out of here and stop trolling my thread. Youâre not even a nelf player, yet you sit there and claim to know what is best for the race, and what nelf fans should want.
1 Like
Take a look at the Kaldorei Archers mustering in Boralus itâs a 50/50 split. And again, we have Ravencrest, Fandral Staghelm, his brother whathisname, Jarod Shadowsong, Malfurion Stormrage, all males who took up leadership positions in war and not one female put up as much as a sqawk in protest. And the ArchDruid who raised the Ancient in Alteraac Valley⊠was female. I heard that she was killed in canon recently. I donât care who says what, thatâs not the signs of a classical matriarchy.
3 Likes
What is in-game is not an accurate representation of the lore. Nelf military is mostly female, men have only been allowed to serve in the last 10 years or so.
Not that it matters, because a race can still be matriarchal without one sex completely dominating the other.
It simply means women hold the power culturally and socially. Which is true, explicitly stated by the Devs and represented in the Lore and Cinematics.
Every single man in a position of authority has been exceptional to the norm, and subservient to a female leader.
Night Elves are matriarchal and that is inarguable.
2 Likes
That trope lives to this day.
Honestly, can you two stop derailing my thread? You want to make your own thread about this, go do it. This is not what this thread is for.