🌚 How are shadow priests for pvp

[Katerina-mannoroth]

Can someone enlighten me if shadow priests are good in PVE also ? Didnt play one back in Vanilla. I think i levelled one in end of tbc.

The 16 Debuff limit really does a number on Shadowpriests for raiding in general. As others have said, for the min/maxers they don’t really start to have a presence to speak of until Naxx. Basically they shouldn’t have much trouble getting a 5 man as shadow, but raids are going to be much more challenging.

[Invulnerable-gorefiend (Invulnerable)]

Monsters in 1v1. Okay in team battles but their mana efficiency is horrible.

[Katerina-mannoroth]

shadow priest is so good, i think they even have some special physical damage reduction while in shadowform

15% physical damage mitigating while in shadowform. They’re basically wearing chainmail with inner fire up and in shadowform, even if they’re in cloth.

[Fendria-sisters-of-elune (Fendria)]

Shadow priests melt faces in PvP.

[Oldallagala-frostwolf (Oldallagala)]

The 16 Debuff limit really does a number on Shadowpriests for raiding in general. As others have said, for the min/maxers they don’t really start to have a presence to speak of until Naxx. Basically they shouldn’t have much trouble getting a 5 man as shadow, but raids are going to be much more challenging.

You have it backwards the 16 debuff limit is what MADE shadow priests viable. The only reason they weren’t brought before ZG was because there were only 8until then. Now that we have 16 throughout the whole thing shadow priest will be way more viable for all of classic.

[Blueïce-proudmoore]

Quite a few healers can cleanse diseases. You have to watch for that.

[Arlifrex-moon-guard (Arlifrex)]

If you’re rolling a pvp server to participate in world pvp, how viable are horde shadow priests?

[Katerina-mannoroth]

You have it backwards the 16 debuff limit is what MADE shadow priests viable. The only reason they weren’t brought before ZG was because there were only 8until then. Now that we have 16 throughout the whole thing shadow priest will be way more viable for all of classic.

The no debuff limit and Vtouch in TBC is what made them raid viable in an undisputed way.

The 16 Debuff limit allowed raids in Vanilla to start “playing” with the idea, and it was reasonably successful. So yes, going from 8 to 16 made them a LOT more viable in raids, but it still stands that Shadow is spec that does a lot of what it does through debuffs, and with only 16 debuffs, it becomes a meta-game for the raid as to which debuffs they’re willing to do without, and hope that the people in the raid abide by it. If you keep having your DOT knocked off before it expires on its own, it isn’t helping you much.

[Katerina-mannoroth]

High 14 ranked pvp players even tell you why trolls work better in most situations in this link for tipsout video. It is 2 hourd long but the first 7 minutes will tell you all you need to know when picking race. Lezonta is the guy that tells you what you need to know, tipsout is just asking questions.

Lezonta says Dwarf priest is best “hands down” for both PvE and PvP on Alliance side. He’s not reliable from that alone. Dwarf Priest in PvE isn’t that clear cut(Fear Ward isn’t that uber), while I’m not going to dispute the claim for PvP.

[Comedy-malfurion (Comedy)]

None of those are a problem if you roll undead.

Hunter can’t do nothing about devouring plague. And undead has charm/fear breaker. But you have to be shifty and not get caught up in chasing the hunter and utilize LOS.

[Oldallagala-frostwolf (Oldallagala)]

If you’re having your dot knocked off then that’s user error. Shadow priests aren’t brought for dps they are just brought for that debuff so if you go 100% with dps and go oom and can’t put up your debuff you’re playing shadow wrong.

You aren’t limited at all by the 16 debuff slot as a shadow priest as your raid should only be using 14 or so anyway. The BiS debuff would look something like this

• Curse of Shadow
• Curse of Elements
• Curse of Recklessness/Weakness
• Winters Chill
• Sunder Armor
• Nightfall
• Faerie Fire
• Improved Shadow Bolt
• Shadow priest shadow vulnerability
• shadow word pain
• scorch
• ignite
• fireball
• expose armor (hunter t2)
• hunters mark

And then the last two you can use however you want like if you want warlocks to have corruption up for instant bolts if they have nightfall.

All guilds should have at least one shadow priest in a raid as your warlocks REALLY start dishing out more damage as their gear gets good. You shouldn’t just be ‘playing’ with the idea, it’s extremely logical to bring them to boost your warlocks. The only time you wouldn’t bring them is if your guild for some reason doesn’t have locks.

[Soop-kaelthas]

In vanilla I had an Undead shadow priest with the tier 0.5 set and some piecemeal epics from MC. Just outside of thorium point in the burning steppes I get jumped by a druid, and then another druid. After a couple minutes I kill the first druid. His buddy battle res’s him. I kill his buddy. The first druid b-res’s him. I kill the first one again. I kill the second one. I ended the fight with full health and about 25% mana.

That’s how silly shadow priests are.

[Comedy-malfurion (Comedy)]

You don’t even need to min-max debuff slots to kill stuff in classic.

This only matters if you’re undergeared and looking for server/world firsts.

[Oldallagala-frostwolf (Oldallagala)]

You don’t even need to min-max debuff slots to kill stuff in classic.

This only matters if you’re undergeared and looking for server/world firsts.

100% agree I’m just saying that guilds aren’t ‘limited’ at all with 16 debuff slots when it comes to having a shadow priest. They are limited in terms of having abilities like serpent sting or maybe curse of agony but not something as big as the shadow priest debuff.

[Katerina-mannoroth]

All guilds should have at least one shadow priest in a raid as your warlocks REALLY start dishing out more damage as their gear gets good. You shouldn’t just be ‘playing’ with the idea, it’s extremely logical to bring them to boost your warlocks. The only time you wouldn’t bring them is if your guild for some reason doesn’t have locks.

In Vanilla, they were “playing” with it. You’re looking at it from the perspective of today, not 13 years ago. Yes, much of the theorycraft existed even then, but it was something that only those on the bleeding edge of things was doing much with as we transitioned to TBC. So it very much was “play.”

Private Server theorycraft and applied meta that have evolved in the intervening 13/14 years are another ballgame, that much of the Classic population is not likely to be particularly privy to. Expect a lot of people to turn up in Classic with views that were in vogue when TBC launched.

The Private server community is likely to find themselves as a minority of the population going forward. With possible exceptions for certain realms. As from the sound of it, it seems they’re likely to mostly fixate on the PVP realms, so those going PvE “Normal” are likely to find themselves outnumbered and contending with really old ideas about how some things work.

And you’re still relying on “the average raid” having good discipline in terms of debuff applications, I wouldn’t count on that.

[Arkaad-moon-guard]

Not sure if you actually listened to the video or not, but he said troll is hands down better overall, but he is rolling undead because he believes you should roll the class you enjoy the most aesthetically. So the conclusion you should make is troll is better overall, but don’t just base your decision off of that.

That’s not exactly what he said. He said troll is better in organized pvp, but that they are equal in unorganized pvp. And he’s right.

If you’ve got people cleansing you then WotF isn’t as useful. If you do premades, then roll a troll.

However, most of us are going to be solo or duo-leveling to 60, and that will represent the bulk of our game play. At 60 I will do a ton of random BGs, but doubt I will have time for much organized play.

For me, undead is the clear winner because it relies less on external support. The times I need WoTF it will be the difference, just like the guy in the video said it had been.

Devouring plague getting autocleansed makes me crack up. In randoms people are flailing at each other. If you pick the right target, then you can land a full effect DP on a target that won’t be able to stop it.

There’s a chance that the person has a potion to dispel it, and if they do I gambled and lost. Most of the time I gamble and win. For my playstyle DP is the bomb.

If you run organized pvp I totally get why you see troll as better.

[Oldallagala-frostwolf (Oldallagala)]

In Vanilla, they were “playing” with it. You’re looking at it from the perspective of today , not 13 years ago. Yes, much of the theorycraft existed even then, but it was something that only those on the bleeding edge of things was doing much with as we transitioned to TBC. So it very much was “play.”

Why are you discussing what they did back in the day? Your first post was literally referring to RIGHT NOW and suggested they aren’t going to get into raids because of the 16debuff limit RIGHT NOW. You said this yourself so why are you switching your argument to back THEN? And even still, why are you bringing up back then anyway we aren’t going back to 2004 my dude.

that much of the Classic population is not likely to be particularly privy to.

Most people aren’t even going to remember whats good and what isn’t… Most people will probably just look into guides to see whats good, find out shadow priests are optimal for their debuffs, and then accept them. Just because people didn’t know about it back then doesn’t mean that information isn’t readily available if not mainstream by now, like you said, 13 years later.

The Private server community is likely to find themselves as a minority of the population going forward. With possible exceptions for certain realms. As from the sound of it, it seems they’re likely to mostly fixate on the PVP realms, so those going PvE “Normal” are likely to find themselves outnumbered and contending with really old ideas about how some things work.

And you’re still relying on “the average raid” having good discipline in terms of deb

Ok you keep saying this but I just have to correct you, this isn’t just a private server thing. People in VANILLA 100% did use them, not just played around with it. Most of the world firsts post ZG had shadow priests in their groups. I understand that maybe EVERYONE didn’t know this, just like not EVERYONE knew balance druids were trash…but this was a widespread raid comp back in vanilla this wasn’t some underground strategy that only a few people did.

And you’re still relying on “the average raid” having good discipline in terms of debuff applications, I wouldn’t count on that.

If your raid group doesn’t have the raid discipline to follow really basic debuff control then why do you insist that they will be worrying about any debuffs/raid comps in the first place? lol… what you’re saying is counter-intuitive to what you’re trying to suggest.

[Oldallagala-frostwolf (Oldallagala)]

That’s not exactly what he said.

I mean… he said trolls are better overall and then paused for like 5 seconds after saying it. He may have went into more detail but that was his summary.

[Circles-garona]

priest leveling is god awful though, right?

[Pyrofilia-zuljin]

Yea, 90%+ of players won’t be in organized pvp 24/7, hell, I probably won’t even enter a battleground.