Yeah exactly. I only leave bad groups. I’m gearing up a healer alt and left two keys yesterday. One because the mage refused to lust and was pulling 300k dps in a +2, the other because the tank giga pulled the first area of NW with no warning (and no lust from another mage) and basically chain wiped us causing 8-10 deaths before we even made it to the first boss. The groups where the players actually had an IQ higher than what you’d find on a school zone speed limit sign went perfectly fine.
If people are coming to the forums complaining about people always leaving their groups, it’s probably because they’re a straight up garbage player and nobody wants to waste their time with them. So they ask for penalties for leavers or ways to force people to carry them through their keys because it’s the only way they can do them.
Couldn’t agree more. Beautifully said!
In general, the main issue with queued system isn’t the structure of the queue system that you can come up with. While I do have some concerns over some of your points here, my main concern is with the idea of queued M+ content in the first place.
We have history of how the WoW community reacts when queued content has a fail state. Players simply will not accept the notion that they could get a Blizzard-assembled M+ dungeon by queue that cannot reach the finish line. There would be calls for nerfs to the content left, right, and center because the failure rate is more than a fraction of a percent. The only viable option Blizzard would have at that point (aside from removing the queue) would be to nerf the content, which would be completely asinine to those of us who enjoy challenging content.
Then there is also the concern of queue length. What incentive does a tank or healer have to to use the queue system when they can already get nearly instant queues with groups they hand pick? There would have to be significant incentives thrown at tanks and healers to encourage them to participate, and I honestly don’t know how high that incentive would have to be for anything higher than the early key levels. If there’s a reasonable chance a tank would wind up paying the cost of an augment rune in repairs, what carrot are you going to dangle in front of them instead?
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My idea includes the possibility to queue with a pre formed group as well. So you would always be free to pre form your group in LFG and then join the queue together. But as the dungeon for push would be random you would invite the player not the class.
Personally, I’d love for M+ to be something you queue for. The only caveat would be it needs to be more like League where you pick your character.
Pick the healer role. Now the group can’t ban you for Holy Priest because they didn’t know ahead of time you would pick it (Or maybe they can lol).
This is actually something I think is fairly simple as far as rewards go. Just add a daily reward that provides a daily reward.
To use an example, lets say the daily reward was a key shard that once you get 5, you can combine it into either a delve bountiful key or maybe even a keystone to reroll one of your vault rewards.
I’m sure this can be picked to part to death but it’d be very simple, would provide a reason for tanks and healers to do at least one queueable dungeon a day.
Back in the day we used to be encouraged to run at least one dungeon a day for the daily heroic with rewards people actually cared about. Can’t see why they can’t do something similar again.
Huge difference in offering a daily bonus for trivial content vs challenging content.
An over geared tank joining a trivial queue knows he can brute force the team to victory in a timely manner.
That can’t be expected in a queue for m+. The reward to do so would have to be astronomical.
An overgeared tank is unlikely to queue anyway because they have would have no need for basically anything anyway. This idea isn’t and never really could be for them.
The idea is to get other people to see the potential rewards and try the roles to go for them.
A interesting potential reward for trying something out works a lot better than frustrating players to try and tank/heal else they don’t get to play the game. Because the latter doesn’t actually work very well.
Like a colonoscopy without anesthesia.
Always a low level alt with low number of posts making such idiotic posts with the worst ideas ever.
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If a person is complaining about long queues as dps, and the instant queue of tank isnt enticing…
And a person “trying out” tanking only helps extremely low level keys.
Correct, because that’s all it could ever really help which is better than nothing.
Based on this and other conversations, there is quite literally nothing that can ever be done to help higher geared tanks and healers play with people outside of premades. Trying to solve that, is pointless. The best hope is to encourage more dps players at the lower end to give tanking and healing a try, and a reward incentive is far better than a punishment one where their hands are forced due to a lack of options.
So just we are clear.
DPS having long queues for a queue system or current group finder isn’t an issue?
Or much of one at least?
It is an issue for both.
Long queue times for a automatic queue system can at least be managed by encouraging players to try the least desired roles with good incentives.
Long queue times in group finder is impossible to fix without fundamental changes to the roles themselves as there is no way to provide incentives aside from “Good run gg” at the end.
My post was about how there is a way to incentivize players to due queueable content, at least once per day.
A reward for tanks is there to attract people not doing the content at all.
The people doing the content already would switch to tank just for the queue system.
The fast queue is already a better reward than anything one could offer. And you get that every dungeon. Not once a day.
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Rofl absolutely not.
Do you not understand how a ladder system works?
Ai should never ever be in mplus.
It’s more or less another, “I was declined so we should make sweeping changes that won’t actually fix anything except it will force people to have me in their group, even if it is behind a 4 hour automated queue” post.
Make your own group, be your own gatekeeper. If people don’t apply to your key, it gives an impression that people would be even less likely to use an anonymous, automated system.
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Yes, the punishment incentive of “might as well do this else I won’t get to play”.
Which is fine. I personally do enjoy seeing everyone complain about tank and healer droughts every two days as well.
What is WoW without making sure everyone at least someone isn’t happy?
I know you’re just spitballing an example here so I don’t want to be too critical of the specific example. But the main concern is with the level of reward required by the time we’re getting into truly difficult keys with a high percentage of failure. How good must the reward be to entice a tank to join the queue for a +8 for which a random queued group has an 80% chance of failing to complete for any reward? Or can I go steamroll a +2 I can basically solo for the same reward that helps out my vault full of myth track items?
It all comes down to the expected value of the reward. When the content has a 100% success rate, the expected value of the reward is just the reward itself. When the content has a 20% success rate, I have to plan to fail 4 times before I finally get a group that is able to succeed; the reward would have to be much greater to convince me it’s worth it to spend hours to obtain a single one.
You don’t realize how you are arguing against your own point.
I’m against incentives for players who don’t want to heal or tank to heal or tank. This leads to players doing it for the reward and not because they enjoy it. This can only lead to players becoming toxic which is something we do not need more of in m+.
Except there are other solutions.
So instead of increasing the supply of tanks with incentives to play roles players wouldn’t play otherwise we decrease the demand for tanks by increasing the group size.