this wouldnt change
then it wouldnt be a solo que now would it.
this sounds like a nightmare at the higher level. can you imagine getting three shadow priest dps. guess no interrupts lmao
this would get trolled so hard.
so screw over the new guy? that makes sense.
the que times would still be insane, m+ would become even more toxic.
What if you get no poison cleanse in the random group and queue into Ara Kara?
No battle rez is just overly punishing and people would not enjoy playing without it.
What about if you queue into Mists and donât have a priest? Your group is perpetually behind because you donât have a priest to MC for the 40% dmg taken buff.
No, I love mythic plus but I would never use a queued system where I canât pick my own group composition.
Same, I want to see the tears about how long queue times are cause not a single tank or healer is available. There should also be a personal point system that ties your dps, deaths, stops, and interrupts together. In order to queue for a key you have to maintain an average dps/interrupt/death level. If you drop below the minimum for a +2 you have to go back and queue for normal dungeons to raise it back up.
it would have to be separate systems completely.
This does nothing to solve the unbalanced ratio of DPS players to healers and tanks. The solution instead is to incentivize participation as a healer and tank by improving M+ rewards for those specs.
Healers queuing into Solo Shuffle rated arena now almost always get an additional reward cache for participating at all that yields 50 conquest points as well as other random goodies. Making these sort of rewards available at the end of a dungeon run might be problematic, but the vault theoretically could be updated in such a way to track what role you completed a key with and give you additional rewards in your cache based on tanking or healing all or a certain fraction of your weekly keys, be it additional crests, or tokens, or whatever.
The last thing anyone willing to tank or heal wants to do though is queue in with randos. There is no incentive for them to!
No its not contradictory: In my idea bloodlust is an universal and important group utility. Its required in every dungeon, while other group utilities are dungeon dependent. In my opinion there should not exist any dungeon depended group utility requirement like we have with Ara Kara or with Grim Batol or Stonevault currently. Those abilities should be designed in a way to allow workarounds.
Like mentioned, dungeon design should consider not to have a hard requirement for specific classes, but if you end up in a complete meme comp then you can always abandon the group before even starting. I would argue that you have to have extremely bad luck to end up in such a group IF dungeon design allows for enough counterplay against an ability.
Queue Times are low if you timed the key already. If you need the key you stay in queue forever.
Idk what Blizz wants, point is with the current system if you haved timed the key already you can join a specific key over and over again as you like by just applying to the same group. This point is here to take into account people wanting to farm a specific dungeon for a specific item.
In my system you can only gain meaningful IO by choosing random dungeons. And as mentioned you are only queued for keys that are one level higher then what the lowest player in the group has already timed in this specific dungeon, if you want to push. So you will never encounter people with that different IOs.
You are getting votekicked and there is the deserter debuff. And if you intentionally grief keys in an absurd amount of times you are getting banned like Blizz has been doing it lately as well.
As a non native english speaker I used AI to improve the wording and formating of the post. All the arguments made have been written and thought trough by me and are not created by AI.
It is much easier and better for players just to get over themselves and learn to tank or heal if participating in PuG groups is their goal, or own that they are just going to be competing for spots in a popular category. Thatâs how it works!
It sucks for the pure DPS classes, which in my opinion long ago should have had at least one of their three(!) in many cases not particularly thematically distinctive DPS specs switched to a tank or healing spec. This whole problem would be a lot less chronic for sure.
That involves so much messing with the MM system, and itâs already often borked for DPS as it is.
Even for RSS, Iâm at a level Iâd consider âaverageâ and I often look at 15-20 minute queues at my MMR, which I believe is 1860-something.
Even if it was able to get similarly skilled players together, I just donât see it panning out. Sure the current M+ has itâs flaws but this will just make all of them worse.
Is it so much different then currently? I am working on +15 keys currently and i rarely see more then 6 groups listed in groupfinder that still need a healer (as im playing myself). But if i list my own key i get applications from at least 40 players (that have timed the dungeon +14 before) within seconds. So it seems like there are players who want to play but cant because the groups are limited and only the highest IO ppl that play a meta spec are picked.
This will not work if players decide there is some subclass or utility that is a must have. It will encourage people to leave after joining, as there will be no penalty. In addition, players could leave during the 10 second countdown without penalty, so that loophole needs closing. It would be better to always have a penalty, except when leaving an incomplete group or by group vote.
Also, the deserter debuff should always be account wide, and definitely be longer for repeated offenses. It should probably not be incurred by being vote kicked a single time in a weekly reset, due to frequent claims of kick abuse. Minor note: Changing spec out of the queued and assigned role should be impossible, since itâs just griefing.
Which is not a problem. If you willingly want to waste your time in queue until you find the optimal group thats your own choice. The group that got ditched will get a replacement within seconds.
Countdown should be something built into the âstart keyâ button. If someone leaves during countdown it will not start the key.
Once the key depletes, it should just kick everyone out and reset.
It wonât. It would be an absolute disaster
Stop trying to add a solo Que option to high end content. It doesnât work.
Nobody is going to wait half an hour to join a depleted key
If you think people bailing on keys now is bad, wait until they install a M+ queue.
These would make a queue based system way, way, wayyyyy worse.
The first point sounds ok on paper, but it wonât really stop people who want to leave. Deserter simply isnât that big of a punishment.
The second point would massively reward queue fishing. There is a reason that when you queue for a dungeon it doesnât tell you what dungeon youâre doing or whether itâs in progress. It used to, but they changed that because people with fast queues would not accept in progress runs. As a tank/healer, itâd be incredibly incentivized to just cycle through groups whenever a DPS looks weak, whether it be class/spec, gear level or the realm they play on.
The third point combined with the first point would lead to in-progress runs and would be an absolutely miserable experience. All you need is 2 people who refuse to give up and then theyâre essentially holding everyone else hostage as it endlessly cycles through people who are either forced to take the deserter debuff or be trapped in a run that is almost certainly undoable.
So not only M+ would become solo queue but Blizzard would need to rework old ones?
So if you queue +12 you have to have +11 completed?
Have you seen forums in the last 2 months? Most people want vote to kick removed.
What If i see the group wont time it since we wiped 2 times on 1st boss and people dont want to vote to end the run? Do I get deserter if i leave key? Do I need to be held hostage until the timer goes out? What if I get kicked meanwhile and get deserter?
The issue with Rated Solo queue M+ would be the toxicity it would create. Random Solo Shuffle is perfect example. Once you are in you cant leave so people just /afk or perform poorly. And the total 6 rounds of 6 people take around what 15-20 minutes on average? Imagine letting 5 players into M+ for 35 minutes.
Also what happens if I get boosted to +10? I have all keys on 0 now, one dungeon on 10 and i queue +11 on that dungeon. Clueless about mechanics and in poor gear. Oh another thing, is there ilvl requirement for example for a +12?
Imagine freshly dinged rogue who doesnât know mechanics, let alone his spec run into +11 with 580 ilvl.
Im all for M+ being solo queuable (i dont really care since i play healers/tanks so i have no problem getting a group), but I have yet to see a good suggestion how would that actually work.
Nah, I think it would be better to improve NPC teammatesâ AI and make them competitive enough for 10-12ish M+s. And pre-programmed AI is also a solution imo, since our pulls, cd/interrupt arrangement in high lv M+s are linear anyway.
Believe me, AI teammates are far more better than toxic slimes.
Because a good suggestion doesnât exist. The entire idea comes from dps players wanting other players to be forced to group with them because they canât get into custom groups, refuse to run their own keys, and refuse to do M+ with a guild or community.
Yeah I noticed this too. Weird how all ideas want to hold people hostage in a key.