Anduin: Jaina, < player >. We are faced with a dire situation.
Anduin: Our spies report that the Banshee plans to execute Baine Bloodhoof.
Anduin: We must rescue him at once. I know what I ask of you. To infiltrate Orgrimmar--
Jaina: I'll do it.
Saurfang: I did not expect the Alliance to be here.
Shaw: Not the first time we've had to move against a corrupt warchief.
Saurfang: Or a sovereign king. Slain in his own home.
Thrall: Focus on the task at hand. Baine's time grows short.
Shaw: A home that still stands. Can you say the same for Teldrassil?
Jaina: That is enough! We are not here to fight each other.
Genn: Good to have you back, Jaina. Why did King Anduin summon you?
Jaina: Sylvanas ordered the execution of Baine Bloodhoof. Anduin sent us into Orgrimmar to rescue him.
Genn: You risked your lives to save a leader of the Horde?!
Jaina: After what he did for Derek, I felt I owed him a debt. We received some unexpected help from Saurfang... and Thrall.
Shandris: You were fortunate that you were not betrayed. Presenting your heads might have regained their warchief's favor.
Jaina: We had a common enemy. Sylvanas wanted us at each other's throats. Perhaps that's what Azshara wants, too.
Genn: Hold on... Are you suggesting we lay down our arms and fight beside them? After all they've done?!
Jaina: No. Merely that we direct our efforts against Azshara instead of the Horde. That could buy time for Saurfang's rebellion to take root.
Jaina: There must be vengeance for Teldrassil. But if Azshara is not stopped, she will unleash her master upon the world.
Genn: Very well. We will focus on defeating the naga queen. But if the Horde turns against us, they will answer for it.
Lor'themar: Proudmoore and Shaw risked their lives to rescue Baine? Unexpected.
Thalyssra: That animosity only benefits Azshara. Her power is considerable. Divided, we are no match for her--or the master she serves.
Lor'themar: Cooperation between our sides has been the exception, not the rule. More often, we are at each other's throats.
Thalyssra: Is it? Not long ago, Alliance and Horde fought together to liberate Suramar from the Legion.
Lor'themar: Sylvanas has the loyalty of the people. So long as she is warchief, this war will rage within their hearts. We cannot stop it.
Thalyssra: Perhaps we do not need to. It might be enough to direct our attacks against Azshara rather than the Alliance.
Lor'themar: That plan would infuriate Blightcaller... which makes me like it all the more. Hmm... "It stops when you turn from one another and walk away..."
Thalyssra: Yes. We also have a history of setting differences aside to fight greater foes.
Lor'themar: A lesson once taught to Jaina Proudmoore and me. Your counsel is wise, Thalyssra. Our focus must be on ending Azshara's reign.
Thalyssra: A truce then? We fight Azshara here, not one another.
Lor'themar: But if the Alliance undermines our efforts, the flames of war will rise again.
Jaina: For all her lies, Priscilla Ashvane spoke one truth. The war between the Alliance and Horde has kept us distracted. Divided, we have no hope against N'Zoth.
Lor'themar: We may have found common cause here in Nazjatar, but the battle still rages beyond these waters. So long as Sylvanas holds Orgrimmar, there can be no lasting peace.
Jaina: The war needs to end, Lor'themar. You know this to be true.
Lor'themar: I had hoped that reason would prevail. But the time has come to finish this.
Lor'themar: I will tell my people what transpired here. Of how Azshara fell because we stood together. Of the threat rising from the depths, and all that is at stake if we should fail.
Lor'themar: Then I will take my place beside Saurfang and Thrall, and pray that the sin'dorei stand with me.
Sylvanas: Look how much of a threat the Alliance is!
Anduin: Lets save a Horde leader!
Jaina: I’ll do it!
Genn: What?!
Jaina: But Genn…! Come on!
Genn: Okay. Lets work with the Horde.
Lor’themar: Jaina and I are friends.
Is your thesis that Jaina and Genn are being written terribly and completely out of character undermining all of the character-development they’ve had over the last 10 years? Because if so, I agree.
…sigh.
if only this peace come with some demands from the alliance.
like, demanding the heads of everyone responsible for teldrassil, especially saurfang.
i knew that this would happen.
is not out of character, is just… stupid because we knew that this is what was going to happen.
Honestly? Yes, that is exactly what the Alliance should be doing. This whole expansion should have given both factions a reason to feel threatened. The Horde has completely lacked any sense of threat from the Alliance from the very beginning.
I hate to criticize creative people and developers, but seriously this has been pathetic all around.
how much i wish that jaina is lying to lord’themar with these lines to make him believe that, only to stab him in the back at the perfect opportunity once the rebellion gets the horde in their most weakened spot and she can seize the moment to “dismantle” (aka disarm).
and give the horde a mortal strike.
but of course that she isn’t lying because n’zoth is on the rise so of course that we have to unite to fight him.
Well hopefully Blizzard will hire better writers going forward so that the Horde and Alliance can come to a peace organically rather than through forced dialogue and terrible plot contrivances.
Consider this the last response you’ll ever get out of me, from your other thread earlier I do not believe you argue in good faith.
I dont mind the new peace direction.
I mean I knew it would happen even when Sylvanas went full on Edge Lord on us.
My only problem is how are they going to address the fact that most of the Horde do not care they committed genocide on defenseless people.
How is this new horde going to be any different than the old one? Baine said it best.
The Horde has a disease and changing Warchiefs changes nothing but give you time until the next Warchief goes coocoo for cocopuffs.
Secondly how are we going to address Teldrassil? The Horde went too far this time.
They did exactly what the first Horde did with the Draenei and the entire Horde is complicit in making it happen AND maintaining it.
The Night Warrior Questline was VERY clear.
Every Horde race is there except for the Tauren. This needs to be addressed.
I hope the WoW team come up with an explanation besides “those gorsh darn horde! What can you do?”
I think this just stems from Blizzard writers for whatever reason are constrained to a certain set of guidelines with a mission to make everyone happy which always ends up with nobody happy.
Which ends up with this comedy of odd conveniences with Blizzard trying to have their cake and eat it too.
I think Blizzard should have just focused on each individual race and make Horde have its own ideals and culture.
Horde Honor should be different that Human Honor. Would I REALLY expect orcs to have my human moral values?
No.
That would be silly. Blizzard should have leaned into these differences.
Playing Horde narratively most of the time seems no different than playing Alliance.
Be I undead, elf, orc or even a human.
There are problems and I solve them. Nothing thematically Horde or Alliance about it.
Which kind of sucks imo.
Isn’t the point of the Baine plot to show that there is Horde who do care about the immoral direction Sylvanas is taking the Horde?
Wouldn’t making Thrall or Baine the next leader of the Horde solve the issue of having a crazy leader?
But the moment you suggest Baine be used to help redeem the Hordes image people on this forum go crazy and shout how much they think he’s a traitor. Any cooperation with the Alliance is frowned upon.
That wasn’t the horde, that was only baine returning the favor that jaina did for him so many years ago.
and it was only baine to jaina, not the horde to the nelfs.
i don’t know what but something must be done to make sure that doesn’t happen again.
and no, baine or thrall being warchief solves nothing.
Well when Thrall was Warchief the Horde never did something as immoral as Teldrassil. But if you have a better suggestion on ways to ensure the Horde doesn’t go crazy again then I would be curious to know. A change of leaders is the only thing I can think of. A leader who embraces cooperating with the Alliance the same way Anduin is open to peace with the Horde. Exterminating the Horde isn’t a realistic option for obvious game play reasons.
Dis-man-tle.
Disarm them completely.
or put some alliance puppets that keeps them in check.
or extermination.
and maybe the abolition of the warchief position.
those are mi suggestions.
But who the hell i am to decide that? i am just an alliance player.
because, like voljin proved, changing leaders means nothing when he can just be killed and name another that some random spirits told him.
Baine’s actions are like throwing a glass of water on a house that is engulfed in an inferno with a wide grin as you pat yourself on the back that you did your part to save the burning building.
Baine’s actions are too little. Too late and go NOWHERE to indicate the Horde is at all redeemable. They only represent him and his actions. This wasn’t even a coalition of Tauren and other races trying to right wrongs.
Its is just Baine and his lonesome.
How so? Warchiefs change. Thrall appointed Garrosh.
Voljin appointed Sylvanas.
2 out of 4 Warchiefs have began a war of aggression and mass slaughter for their own reasons. Who is to say the Warchief after Thrall or Baine wont pull the exact same BS as Garrosh and Sylvanas and every single Horde character use “For the Horde’s survival” doesn’t attack some unsuspecting city again?
No.
Thrall, Baine, or frigging Ji.
it doesn’t matter. The Horde is broken and it keeps breeding power crazy warmongering warchiefs.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Horde needs to change or this whole expansion is pointless.
Except Baine can’t redeem the Horde.
See the example I mentioned earlier.
I frown on any cooperation too.
It is always set in a scenario of “Work together or die” for the 11th hundred time. It is a boring trope.
Sometimes I just want the characters to say “well ef it then. Because there is no way I am working with those baby killing monsters.”
this is the problem when they write these faction wars. the horde never has an existential crisis in a faction war since daelin tried t wipe us out in durotar. even varian at his worst was consistently put in check by first jaina and then his own son towards the end of his life.
personaly i think the faction war should be ended permanently outside of some made up cold war thing for battlegrounds. but as a story driven thing that vastly changes the structure of the zones (teldrssil, undercity) its dumb.
Well like Etheldald said maybe abolishing the position of “Warchief” altogether would be a start. It’s not exactly a title indicating intentions of peace. The Horde were redeemed from WC1 and WC2 in the story of WC3. I don’t see how they can’t be redeemed in WoW.
I’m glad our real world leaders don’t think like you do, lol.
It is cute how you think the real world is not like that.
We humans are capable of incredibly stupid and horrible things… if it makes you feel any better if the Horde existed in any capacity in the real world they would be dust now.
We, real life humans living on planet earth, would have broken them long before they even became a threat much less let them run around like they do in WoW.