They have no reason to leave until Thrall fixes the lumber problem. Like the Warsong are so strong they defeated Cenarius so no reason to be afraid of ancients and sentinels.
Ignoring the fact that the warsong had to drink mannoraths blood again to even stand a chance against cenarious
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Not every Horde member is a Baine type of rolling over and die for peace. Nice try. We stay 
Doesn’t change the fact that the warsong had to drink mannoraths blood to defeat cenarious.
I never mentioned baine or leaving ashenvale
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The buff makes sense not because of Ashenvale, but because we burned their tree.
Work your brain harder, homie.
I believe in you.
Night Elves need Elune-tainted Titan blood to be powerful, so who cares?
And Grom only says they’re the perfect warriors if you’re losing against them to begin with.
If you’re just rocking their ish, he just ish talks them.
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Orcs are the best warrior race. Then come Mogu. The rest dumples inbetween. That is clear. Without treason from inside and various magical plot devices and BS powers of Jaina the alliance would have lost by now.
The night elves needing a literal god and the blood of a titan to be powerful is a whole other can of worms and makes one wonder if they could have accomplished anything without those two things
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They didn’t. The Orcs, Satyr, Aqir and later demons kicked their bootys.
I was rewatching it. It’s a bit revisionist. It present someone regretting what the enslavement of his race lead to, but someone regretting it as if it were a choice.
And I have to say, this has been a flaw in a lot of Blizzard’s “the Horde looking at itself”. You can’t have a nuanced look at what happened if you leave out key facts.
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Just ask Frostfel – the Horde needs magical plot devices to win. It couldn’t possibly stand against the fearsome Alliance.
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Medivh saved you against the Gurubashi. Gul’dans treason sealed the original Horde defeat. Jaina saved you at Lordaeron and Zandalar. The 100 saved the human army at Alterac. Every war usually is won cuz of some magical and plot demanded trick.
Medivh didn’t save me from anything.
And yes, things happen to develop the story in fiction.
The Horde has their fair share of being saved by THE PLOT when it’s handy, too.
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Not it doesn’t. It has so far lost EVERY faction war and pretty much their whole leadership was obliterated at least three times by now.
Well, there’s the fact that the Horde hasn’t actually been wiped out by the Alliance yet, despite the fact that all their (Alliance’s) main characters are demigod-tier. I guess you could call that “being saved by the plot.”
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Oh no you can’t delete a faciton from the game since you think you deserve total victory! The plot armor man so massive! Lol.
Remember, kids, if it’s something you don’t like, it’s “plot armor”, “bias”, “a hackneyed mess”. And if you like it, well, then it’s just logical writing, obviously.
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Grom says this before Cenarius ever shows up, so by Frostfel’s assessment the Warsong were losing to the Night Elves without them needing a demi-god nor access to the Well of Eternity.
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I’m back after a busy weekend, but I’ve kinda lost the energy in my thread of this discussion. So I’m just gonna bow out, at least for now. I’m sure these points will all come up again someday, as that is the nature of the forums, and maybe I can address them then.
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Wait, so the Horde lost the first war?
Somewhere a pot and a kettle exploded.
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