Can you read?? We’ve been saying that the story retroactively making genn right is a problem.
Even then the story was already indicating that she was up to something seedy. Whether it was the Jailer or something else doesn’t really matter her Entire MO was being a shifty character and being completely self-serving so it was always going to turn out to be something bad.
I mean I agree sylvanas is almost always doing something seedy. Genn and Admiral KillHorde were ordered not to do anything unless the situation demanded it.
They left Stormwind already intending to assassinate her.
If blizzard wasn’t so biased toward the Alliance, this would have HUGE repercussions.
Unfortunately, only the horde gets those.
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Hol on, I thought it was the Alliance that started the fourth war? I’m not going to trust no Orc with a superpower crystal. The only mistake anyone made in the fourth war was the Nelves basically losing like -300 iq points for the writers to make Teldrassil happen. Ridiculous.
Sure, but we knew what that seedy thing was: Sylvanas very frankly told the Horde PC that she’d be pursuing a side quest to solve her race’s dwindling population while they secured the Aegis and met the Horde’s heroism quota. The Golden novel reframing this and half a dozen other incidents as having actually just been odd jobs for Bald Lucifer was shoddy stuff; it took a grey story and washed it out.
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Azshara also struck an accord with the Zandalar tribe of trolls, who held considerable influence over the rest of their race. Uninterested in conquering the trolls, which the queen saw as a minor nuisance at best, she allowed the Zandalari to keep their sacred Zandalar Mountains in exchange for ending troll incursions into kaldorei territory.
Seems like troll lands were conquered(or more likely the trolls themselves were already in decline) before Azshara took the throne.
Also, as mentioned earlier trolls were already fighting each other for land. The night elves, as troll decendants effective just won the conflict that had lasted generations.
We also know that she intended to use them to invade stormwind and raise the humans as undead. She is also a character who consistently lies or doesn’t tell the whole truth to people. She cannot be trusted and the fact that she was just handed the entire power of the Horde the Alliance needed to act.
My main complaint about the scenario is the fact Anduin doesn’t tell Genn to stop sylvanas by any means. The lady had just left the alliance to die and that resulted in his father dying but hes still more concerned about the poor horde than his own people she could turn on.
She broke any treaty the alliance had with the Horde when they left the Alliance to die.
I am going to admit; I did not read this entire thread. But in my opinion, the basic idea behind the fourth war was sound. We obviously know now that Sylvanas had other plans and whatnot, but the reasoning she gave Saurfang in “A Good War” made sense.
A little excerpt from the Novella, "That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of the fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwind’s few remaining airships destroyed.
There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduin’s permission, but as
far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to same conclusion: the old worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde."
Besides the fact that cycle of hatred and yada yada, the warchief of the Horde had an attempt on her life by a nation of the Alliance, which is reason enough for Sylvanas to start the war without any trouble from other Horde leaders.
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Which is stupid because they Saurfang should have also heard about how Sylvanas was working with Helya and undermining the effort to fight the legion. That she was trying to enslave our allies against the legion for her own means.
It also ignore the fact that Saurfang was also a man who lost a son to a violent undead monster. I would have expected he would sympathise with Genn.
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What she herself was doing does not negate what actions Genn took(Especially since his actions were not about saving the Val’kyr).
He assaulted Horde troops, ships and the warchief herself- which gives her any reason she would ever need to retaliate against the Alliance.
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Actually, it does considering if he hadn’t acted and Sylvanas had been successful there is a good chance the legion would have won. As a man whose life was defined by the horrors created by the legion you would think he would be more pissed off with her.’
The Discussion should have gone as follow.
“Well Sylvanas you killed his son and plagued his land of course he is going to want to kill you, You have never attempted any recompse or apology infact your people are still in his lands.”
“Besides what were you doing with those valkyr, obvisouly not anything good based on your history with them. Why were you working against Odyn etrigg says he was a good being and was helping against the legion.” I would have killed you myself if you were standing in the way of the Legions destruction."
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You really are not looking at the characters personalities, their roles/positions and everything involved therein. Saurfang wouldn’t give two craps about whether she ever formally apologized about
You don’t just shrug off an attack on the sovereign leader of a nation. That would just show that anyone can attack you with no worries.
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actually, everything I posted takes into account Saurfang personality, Hell he just stood up against a tyrant who started a war, the lost of his son sent him spiralling into a depression and he swore never to let anyone lead the horde down such a path again. Plus nobody in the Horde trusted Sylvanas at any point before or even after she was made warchief.
It’s more like blizzard ignored his personality because they wanted the war to happen and couldn’t think of any other way to make it happen other than making Saurfang a drooling moron.
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Imagine using ‘justified’ and ‘war’ in the same sentence.
Has anyone brought up that Ashran is canon and has a good bit of lore backing it up yet? Folks really don’t like that one.
I felt like Saurfang could have been persuaded, but it should have taken more facts, more consideration, and more time. The story shortcut its way to the end it desired, and made all the characters look like flighty and/or kill-happy idiots by doing so.
And I feel the same goes for the entire Horde’s motivation towards war. I think there are enough reasons in the story to have the Horde believe that starting the fight at that moment in that way (without the Burning being known) was the correct choice… but I don’t think the actual story showed that - again, it took a shortcut to reach the conclusion it wanted without bothering to build it up in-universe.
I think that’s a major contributor to the faction divide seen here on the forums between real people - between those who incorporate those setting and background details into Saurfang and Sylvanas’ debate to expand it into the kind of argument that would truly change people’s minds, and those who follow the as-written debate in all its barebones and insultingly simplistic (in)glory.
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I like how you read the parts where the nelf empire conquered trolls left and right and then azshara grew bored with it.
Clownshoes. lol.
The idea that Saurfang should trust a super-horde-hating enemy racial leader over the well-being of his own faction is ridiculous. He didn’t have to trust Sylvanas, but nobody on the horde should be taking Genn’s side of all people over their own, especially when he had (from the horde’s PoV) launched an unjustified backstab during the Legion invasion and got off scot-free for it.
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Maybe the trolls shouldnt have attacked them? Maybe if trolls didnt keep attacking anyone with a pulse they wouldnt been at the brink of extinction now. 
Yes.
That’s exactly what happened when Azshara decided she owned the entire planet.
Again, she did not care about owning the planet. If all she wanted that she could have gotten it. She considered the trolls below her notice.