Horde was justified in starting the fourth war

Lore Story Forum
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Okay, so not looking at all of the obvious wrongs that Sylvanas committed during Shadowlands and by killing Saurfang. I’m going to say it was justified to start the fourth war against the Alliance. Okay so this is before Shadowlands and so without knowing Sylvanas’s true intention was not to advance the glory of the Horde. The Horde was, in my opinion, justified in starting war with the Alliance, for the following reasons:

  1. The Alliance are evil and stole the Amani trolls land, then imprisoned Talanji and Zul in the Stormwind stockades. This is evidenced in the quest to free Talanji from underneath Stormwind, called Stormwind Extraction.
  2. The Alliance are a supremacist and elitist faction, evidenced by how they treat the Blood Elves (when Kael’thas was leader) and Amani trolls (during both the Troll wars and the Second war) and the Orcs (internment camps lasted way longer than internment).
  3. Gilneas will not stop terrorizing the Forsaken, in the Silverpine forest they are sacrificing their own people to kill Forsaken.
  4. The Horde would be better off without the Alliance for the reasons above.

I think this is important to make the distinction between Sylvanas being wrong in allying with Zovaal and Sylvanas being justified in starting the fourth war. Both can be true. The Alliance like to blame the Horde for starting the fourth war and then lump all of Sylvanas’s actions together and blame the Horde for all of them. But to be clear, Sylvanas was only wrong after killing Saurfang and leaving the Horde and Forsaken.

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Imagine some Burning Legion Remnant came to Azeroth to cause trouble every now and again.

That’d be neat.

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All of these can be true, but the argument that the Horde was sincerely justified in starting the war is still wrong. Your strongest argument, indirectly, is here:

This is the entire reason for the formation of the New Horde on Azeroth. Three essentially shattered peoples, but somehow also very similar, in this new strange land called Kalimdor coming together. Then a forth, the freed undead of Lordearon who were scorned by by the Alliance, their former allies, friends, and family. Then a fifth, that you’ve pointed out, who were destroyed, traumatized, abused, and treated like less than by the Alliance before the Horde even came to be, only to be spied on by this same, but new, Alliance. A whole cartel who then runs from natural catastrophe, only to be attacked because “no witnesses” from the Alliance holding the Earthen Ring leader, trying to save the planet, no longer War Chief Thrall.

All of these reason are valid and true and should create a sense of distrust, if not hatred for the Alliance and yet, they were still not justified in starting this war. The way it had started, who started it, does not give the Horde justifiable means and you cannot truthfully say anyone else in the Warchiefs position, not Suarfang, Rokhan, Lor’themar, definitely not Baine, would have started this war, even in a different manner. Could Sylvanas of taken her Forsaken and pushed further into Gilneas, Arathi, and the Plaguelands? Sure. Does it make sense for the entirety of the Horde to go total war? Absolutely not. At no point does anyone even think of petitioning Anduin, the High King of the entire Alliance, to bring Genn, Rodgers, and crew to justice or answer for their transgressions for going against his orders and making an assassination attempt against a standing Horde leader. Diplomacy wasn’t even considered.

That is not to say the 4th War could never of happened. Doubtful Anduin would turn Genn over, or meaningfully punish him, and Sylvanas would likely petition for further support in taking it to the Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms where it hurts, physically, mentally, and emotionally for Genn and Rodgers, but the Horde starting it, the method in which they did, under what reasons, does not lead to a reasonable conclusion that they were justified in the war that we got throughout BFA, even if you separate out Sylvanas.

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1: That was the High Elves who came to their lands and wasn’t apart of the alliance at the time or humanity of Arathi in general.
2: That was One stupid fat grand marshal who had a bias towards Quel’thalas and didn’t help out the Kirin Tor at all at the time nor Lordaeron in general plus the King of Lordaeron knew nothing about what was actually happening in the internment camps since rather than killing all Orcs they much would rather see them in prisons to keep the lands safe.
3: That was only on the Forsaken because they started killing Gilneans and murdered the King’s Son.
4: Much extreme horde bias.

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  1. History. Every man has a reason to wage war if we want to trace back far enough. Bad reasoning. We have real life examples of this playing out right now in reality.
  2. Not a reason to start a war, even if it were true.
  3. Ah wait, didn’t the Forsaken first “stole the Gilnean’s land”, as you put it for the trolls, and subsequently left it a ruin? How can you justify one act of war and not another?
  4. Not a reason to start a war. If we want to play this game, the Horde would be better off without the Alliance, but the world would be better off without the horde. Starting conflicts, committing multiple genocides, causing multiple world threatening events from the first invasion, to alternate draenor, to the shadowlands, etc.

I still can not get over how Night Elves was handled in the story. Absolutely disgusting.

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I always laugh when like, half the stuff people blame the current alliance for, is stuff the people of Lordaeron did.

And who are the people of Lordaeron? oh ya the Forsaken

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To be fair, the majority of the humans of Stormwind were originally from Lordaeron who immigrated post 2nd War as part of the agreement made by King Terenas Menethil and Varian. The reason Lordaeron provided manpower, gold and resources was to rebuild Stormwind and have a crucial ally for the future. Hence why they’re known as sister kingdoms.

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That’s one spicy character name. :exploding_head:

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We’re doing this again?

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Alliance favors a few singular biome profiles, Horde has a tendency to destroy the surrounding environment and replace it with desert, spikes, or worse, goblins.

Reject both, embrace the botani.

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The sole justifiable factor in any war is your ability to win it.

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Well, since Horde took a pretty solid beating from the Fourth War and however you want to spin it, CERTAINLY didn’t win it, obviously it was unjustified.

Thread over. Good talk everyone.

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“If fighting will result in victory, then you must fight.” The implication being that if it will not result in victory, you must not fight.

Without a clear path to victory for The Horde, starting the 4th war was unjustifiable. The planners of the conflict never intended a victor at all. From it’s very conception, it was unjustifiable.

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All right, I was actually just being sassy but I suppose we’re on the same page there.

Turns out starting a pre-emptive war with unclear goals on a lot of “what ifs” and “maybes” was a stupid move that only sort of makes sense in the context that the leader of the Horde honestly just wanted to send as many people to super Hell as possible. Own people included.

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No, they weren’t. The Horde starting the fourth war was an incomprehensibly stupid decision, especially considering we just got done fighting the Legion.

That being said, they should have won it or at the very least won Darkshore. The Blight made the Lich King retreat, there’s no way in the Maw that Tyrande or Malfurion should have been able to stop it.

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Theramore was a legitimate military target

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Imagine Jaina understanding her fault, and saying that.

No, heaven forfend the Alliance peasantry understand why they are being slaughtered.

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All parties involved in this joined the Horde lmao.

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War on Azeroth has never been fought in any other way. No one is playing pattycaske here.

It’s not exactly a secret that Anduin let Genn’s little adventure go entirely unpunished. It was one of the absolute facts that Sylvannas used to persuade Saurfang to sign up.

You really think that petitioning Anduin at that point is anywhere even close to plausibility?

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It’s not like peasants have either ever been given anything other than propaganda… or for that matter a choice.

The way the country was entirely snockered into war on Iraq shows that it hasn’t changed one bit.