You mean the others who poisoned the world and caused it to become a toxic wasteland in both MU and AU are all caused by 1 bad orc?
rofl. Come on…
It was a dying and crumbling world in both AU and MU. Look it up if you dont believe me.
Rebellion for what? Because they were turned on by their leader.
Thats a fact.
Both times the Horde rebelled a warchief tried to have a few of its leaders killed.
Every time?
The Horde never won a single war, they always got a sucker punch or a surprise attack first with great effect and then fail to attain complete victory.
It happened in the first war, it happened with Garrosh (hence why he had to try to get old god powers) and what happened with Sylvanas (hence why she had to try to get old god powers).
Lol yes he was. He was unleashing the old god powers that would destroy the world as we knew it.
Not when it meant releasing Nzoth that the Alliance had to stop with Magni.
Now the Warchief has started another crisis in a different realm of reality.
GJ Horde!
Its called paying attention to the lore.
I don’t just ignore lore that is inconvenient to suit my narrative.
I address every bit.
You keep claiming the Horde rebelled against their tyrant Warchief.
Why did the Horde stand aside in both wars UNTIL their warchief turned on them?
And even then the ones that did were but a small number of the larger Horde?
I know it’s been longer than five minutes since Outland, so you likely forgot what it even looked like, but Nagrand doesn’t look like a toxic wasteland. Blades Edge Mountain doesn’t either. Talador? Nope, not toxic.
Know your zones.
No it wasn’t. We go back there after however many years passed, as part of the unlock for mag’har. World was doing fine, other than fanatical draenie. I’m honestly shocked you know nothing about that.
Know your draenie
That’s what rebellions are. Still know your grammar.
Neither time were either leader trying to destroy Azeroth. Know your raid bosses.
Know your headcanon?
That was Azshara, not Sylvanas. Know your lore and your raid bosses.
You just misrepresent it. Know your lore.
Vol’jin was anti-Garrosh in Cata, before all the cool kids were doing it. Know your Cataclysm.
In the exclusive cinematic that Horde players got Saurfang commented on Nagrand. Its a dying toxic world, the crops wither into dust as he touches them.
The Orcs destroyed that world hence they needed to invade another one.
This is all established lore.
I mean at this point such a blatant obvious established fact you are debating me on. How could I take any other point you make seriously?
Dude the world was dying look it up. You don’t even know the lore.
I am not disputing a power struggle or rebellion happened I am questioning its motives. WHY did the Horde rebel against the Warchief?
Because the Warchief attacked them or in BFA’s case… just left.
They were trying to destroy it as we knew it.
An old god infested wasteland of corruption and slavery is not what I would call an improvement but maybe the Horde playerbase thinks differently. Idk.
And Sylvanas was working with who? Oh right Azshara.
So far that has been what you have been doing. Do you want me to source it?
Oh … I’m sure this will be a productive thread. A combination of those few Alliance players who are absolutely lost in their absolutist moral power fantasy, and those Horde players naive enough to try to argue against them. Despite the fact the Devs have done their darndest to show the Horde as monstrous, since they seem incapable of seeing the Horde as anything other than a plot device to push hairbrained stories that come at the Faction’s expense…
First, many people are content to just kick other faction’s tail. That doesn’t mean that some of us prefer Thrall’s Horde or better vs Garrosh or Sylvanas.
Second, Baine’s about as popular as Anduin among the Alliance playerbase.
That pretty much should tell you it’s not just Horde players wanting to roflstomp the other guys, but Alliance players want to as well.
You say this.
And yet you are shocked that I come to the conclusion that Blizzard has been pushing me all this time?
Blizzard has made it clear to me, in my experience, that the Horde = The Burning Legion.
Period. They are evil pieces of garbage that I have no moral dilemma putting down and my only complaint to Blizzard is why they don’t let me do to Horde what Horde does to me in this story.
It’s a dying world, because it was broken. By Ner’zul. Because he opened too many portals and didn’t know what he was doing. He never said it was a toxic world.
Know your headcanon.
Dude no it wasn’t cuz it was there thirty five years later. Know your lore, know your draenie.
Saurfang’s rebellion happened before Sylvanas left. Know your timeline.
Saurfang’s personal rebellion happened before Sylvanas sent assassins after him, and is why those assassins were sent. Know your timeline.
Garrosh had no plans to destroy the world. Change things, yes, but not destroy it. Know your Garrosh.
Sylvanas wanted to fill her murder quota. Know your Dark Lady.
Neither tried to destroy the world. Know your world.
But didn’t give a damn about freeing N’zoth. Know your N’zoth. Know your Azshara. Know your lore.
FYI, if the act of working with someone means, in your myopic view, you are now responsible for their actions… You just laid the blame for everything Sylvanas has done post-Broken Shore at the feet of the Alliance. They worked with her on the Broken Shore. Therefore, they are (again, your myopic view here, not mine) responsible for her becoming the warchief who slaughtered the night elves.
So, Talanji never actually joins the Horde. She’s an ally of the Horde. She thinks she’s equal-to, or better-than (despite being utterly crippled and relying on us completely. She even verbally admits it to Sylvanas!) I’m sure there are some people who disagree with my hot take, but no I absolutely did not enjoy that exchange.
You mean where the Troll war-legend Emperor died for her to rise?
w-
Pheandra do you know who the Horde interacts with in the war campaign?
Nathanos, Rexar, Thomas Zelling, that forsaken chick whose name escapes me, and Amelia.
Yes, because they were under the Burning Legion’s control. Because the Legion had been manipulating them for a while, and wanted to use them and Medivh to accomplish what they failed to do ten thousand years ago.
The fighting stopped and as one the ores turned to gaze at the Portal. Moments before, one could look into the area outlined by the pillars and simply see more of the Hcllfirc Peninsula landscape. Now there was a blackness and a swirl ol stars, as if one
were looking into a night sky gone mad. Even Durotan’s eyes were riveted on the sight. As he watched, the blackness shimmered and reformed itself into a scene that both startled and puzzled him, Gul’dan had spoken of a beautiful land, rich with fat preybeasts, fertile fields, blue skies. Durotan was indeed looking at a place he had never seen before, but it was a far cry from the idyllic realm Gul’dan had described. It was as moist as Dracnor now was arid, A thick haze floated above brackish water and swaying marshland grasses. A buzzing, chirping sound filled the air. At least, thought Durotan. there was life in this strange place. Unhappy murmurs ran through die crowd. This was where Gul’dan wanted to send them? It was not much better on first glance than their own land. But then again. Durotan realized, water meant life. Orange though the sky was, not blue, and drenched though the land was. not filled with flowers and meadows, it could support life. He turned to look at Gul’dan as the murmuring rose in volume. Gul’dan was obviously trying to cover his own shock. He waved his arms for silence. “Azcroth is a large world, as is our own!” he cried. “You know how different the land can be from place to place. I am certain it is the same here. This place . . . docs not look as inviting as I was . . .” His voice trailed off and he shook himself, visibly recovering. “But behold, this is in truth another land! It is real! You!” Gul’dan pointed at two dozen fully armored ores who stood beside the Portal. They snapped to attention. “You have been chosen to be tiic first to investigate this new land. Go forth, in the name of the Horde!” The ores hesitated only an instant, then grimly ran forward into the Portal. The scene vanished. Durotan’s head whipped around to stare at Gul’dan. The warlock was doing his best to stay composed, but clearly he had been ratded. “They are our scouts,” Gul’dan said. “They will return with news of this world.” And before the gathered ores could truly begin to grow worried, die image of the swamp reappeared and the ores hurried through. They were grinning from car to car. More than half of them carried the carcasses of large animals. One was a reptile of some sort, scaly, long-tailed, with stubby legs and huge jaws. The other was a four-legged, furry thing, with claws on all four of its feet, a long tail, small rounded ears and spots on its yellow, glossy coat. Both were obviously healthy specimens. “We have slain and eaten both typcs of creatures,” the leader of the scout said. “Their flesh is wholesome. The water there is pure. We do not need a beautiful land. We need one that will feed and sustain us. This Azcroth will do so admirably, Gul’dan.” A murmur went through the crowed. Despite himself, Durotan felt his gaze drawn to the beasts the scouts had brought through and his stomach growled. It had been two days since he had eaten. Gul’dan visibly relaxed. He looked over at Durotan, and his eyes narrowed. Durotan tasted apprehension, sharp and bitter, in his throat. He and his clan were needed. He knew that. He also knew that his defense of the child—and the reaction it had provoked among the other clans, many of whom had come to the defense of the Frostwolves— would not be forgotten. He had half suspected that Gul’dan would order his execution or banishment, but apparendy Durotan and the Frostwolves yet had some use to Gul’dan and Blackhand. So be it. For now, he would fight alongside his brethren. Tomorrow would have to take care of itself. Whatever betided, Durotan knew he would die with his honor intact. Gul’dan looked back over the crowd of expectant ores and took a deep breath. “This is the moment of destiny,” he said. “On the other side, a new beginning awaits. A new enemy to slaughter. You can feel it, can you not? The bloodlust rising? Follow Blackhand! Listen to his orders and you will rule this new world as is your right! It’s your world on the other side of the Portal. Take it!” The cries were deafening. The crowd surged forward. Even Durotan found himself caught up in the thrill of a new world, so lush and ripe and ready for the taking. Perhaps his worry was misplaced; perhaps this would indeed be a new beginning. Durotan loved his clan, loved his people. He wanted to see them thrive. And he, like all orcs even before this moment, reveled in the kill. Perhaps it would all be well. Axe in hand, hope flourishing in his heart, Durotan joined in the race toward the Portal, toward this place called Azcroth. He lifted his arms and raised the cry that was on the lips of every orc as they surged forward: “For the Horde!”
If Horde players must accept that we’re a faction of villains and genocidal monsters then Alliance players must accept also accept that they’re a faction of easily-forgiving milquetoasts and softies.