Because the War of Thorns was stupid and should never be repeated, by either faction. Ever. Best thing for Blizzard to do is let Chromie in to do a reverse time on that tree to just before it was burnt and undo the entire lore.
EDIT: I would say undo the entire expansion but I love Zandalar too much to have it erased. One of the few good things to come out of BfA, imo.
Your words. Not mine.
You claim worldS were destroyed when they only ever destroyed one. You claim the night elves were exterminated when there are a pretty big number of them left. Things of that nature.
Honestly, the Horde’s crimes are bad enough on their own. There’s no need to blow them out of proportion.
The Highborne, specifically, brought the Legion to Azeroth. Those same Highborne that evolve into the Quel’dorei/Sin’dorei. Kaldorei are genetically the same as the Highborne of old, but they fought on different sides of the war; it’s an important distinction.
This argument has been made quite publicly a few times over the course of BFA, and in the end we come back to the same point: it wasn’t a resounding hoorah moment for all Horde players. Many of them did not support the burning, and had to endure it regardless.
If Horde players had been given a choice whether to support it or fight against it, I think that would have been great. And in response, let the Alliance do something horrific and awful, but only if you opt in.
Blizzard has a habit of forcing these god awful, miserable, horribly written stories on everyone, and then going “Didn’t you all just LOVE that?” and it drives me nuts. The point of an RPG is allowing us to make choices for ourselves; WoW has been devoid of that for ages.
If you want to commit horrible and unspeakable acts, that’s what we have RP for, but it’s always going to be separate from the canon game lore. That’s why I focus exclusively on RP these days, and try to avoid Blizz’s new content that gets rolled out.
Blizzard deliberately set out create outrage. I mean they had Alliance content where the Horde soldiers deliberately targets civilians in Astranaar. But in the Horde content, Saurfang sends out the PC to get civilians safely out of the battle zone.
This is way to get players engaged, like in professional wrestling. But I can only think that they were clueless on a) that this would spill out into some of their fans hating others of their fans and (perhaps most implorantly) b) You can’t turn that off like a faucet.
Which is the Alliance I want. I’m tired of Blizzard justifying the killing of innocent just because they happen to be the same race as someone else and are, therefore, evil and deserve it.
In way, trying to justify evil acts only make the character more evil.
That distinction is meaningless, as the Highborn Kaldorei are part of the Alliance now. As much as the Sindorei are a part of the Horde. Maiev was upset about it, but it happened.
And the common Kaldorei supported Azshara even as she and her Highborn massacred them. Not just the Highborn. They slowly turned on her, as the Horde did on some of its Warchiefs.
The Kaldorei Empire was responsible for bringing the Legion to Azeroth. From it’s Highborn to its commoners. As they placed Azshara on the throne and followed her, until they didn’t.
If every common Horde soldier and peasant is guilty for the crimes of their leaders, so are every Kaldorei. And the Kaldorei are in the Alliance.
No one faction has a monopoly on mass murder and destruction. The Kaldorei have wrought much horror on Azeroth, as have the Horde.
Which was the point. Reading lectures about the Horde’s actions from people posting on renamed Eredar and the remnants of Kaldorei Empire is laughable.
There was poster who would take and interesting twist on something and throw “Varians is evil” or something. It was clearly bait, but at least it was interesting bait. They left when BfA started…
I have to say, as someone who was Horde recently, a lot of Alliance posters have been quite reasonable. I certainly don’t think his meme has even the support of most Alliance players.
Your revisionist historical lore is laughable but I have been in enough debates with you to know that even if I quote text directly to your face you would refuse it.
So… carry on.
We really didn’t though. We’ve been over this before. Horde gets to keep nothing we gained in the war and we lost more than the Alliance did in the end. Lordaeron and any presence in Arathi Basin, Lost to the Horde. Meanwhile the Alliance only lose Teldrassil. They regained control of Darkshore and they get Stromgard back up and running again. At best Horde can only hope that Ashenvale goes back to its pre-BfA status-quo.
No prominent Alliance characters are killed, meanwhile the Horde lost Saurfang and Rastakhan. Sylvanas, Nathanos, and Gallywix all abandoned the Horde so technically these are losses as well.
This. The whole point of the BFA lead up and promo material was to a) stoke division amongst the community (which was a terrible idea) and b) to encourage the notion of having pride in your faction.
This is also true, and they unleashed a monster they couldn’t control. Faction tensions have been there since Vanilla, when the Tarren Mill vs. Southshore stuff existed; it’s only gotten worse.
BFA has been the pinacle, and they haven’t released any story that is a genuine attempt to de-escalate the situation. Their idea of ‘fixing’ the problem is to pull another WoD, where someone stands up and shouts “Draenor is free!” when the person shouting it is responsible for setting the awful things in motion.
Terribly ineffectual; it rang hollow.
What I’m saying, and what you’re clearly backing here, is that the modern races that once were the Highborne are in both factions; so don’t try to pin it all on the Kaldorei of the Alliance. If the elf is a Highborne (Shal’dorei, Quel’dorei, Sin’dorei, and Shen’dralar), they share guilt for the War of the Ancients.
By your logic, the current Horde’s civilians are also guilty of the crimes of the OG WC1 Horde.
This is definitely true, but it what I’m seeing from your posts here is that you’re trying to place the blame for such things squarely on the Alliance.
You roleplay; that’s how.
Here’s an example.
If the Legion expansion is currently in progress, but I don’t want to do the Legion expansion and run with that story, I could have my characters go off on an adventure in… say Northrend. Maybe I have a character hunt yetis for the whole two years.
Is the Legion story still happening on the Broken Isles? Yup.
Did the Yeti thing happen in the canon game lore? Nope.
But it’s RP. It happened for my character; I got to enjoy it. That is how it works.
So in your case, you could go off and run a storyline with friends in which you hunt down Orc babies and toss them on pikes, and that’s entirely something you can do.
Here, we use the power of imagination.
This isn’t genuinely the case. Yes, Blizzard said that the Alliance won those territories, but catch me dead before we ever see it in game.
Just because it is said to have happened, doesn’t make it a tangible victory or gain for one faction, or a loss for the other.
Look, time and time again - players will try to compare things apples to apples.
The issue is, you can’t measure the two factions side by side; it’s just pointless. The reason is, everything means something different to someone else.
The factions are separate for a reason, and they should remain so. Different stories, different characters, different victories and losses. I really don’t like the modern notion of the factions being center focus for expansions; there is no way to set up a meaningful story with epic losses and gains while still having a satisfying conclusion. I dare say that it is impossible.
Someone is always going to make the claim that “their” loss is worse than “yours”, and it goes on and on. This is a flaw in Blizzard’s design, and we’re going to be suffering due to it as long as this game keeps coming out. They went too far with BFA, and we just need to accept the fact that, quite literally - every. one. lost.
There are no victors in this expansion. There is no triumph. We lost, we suffered; people are miserable and there was no happy ending. Welcome to Blizzard’s universe of pain.
Trust me when I say… I had no victories in cinematics this expansion. This expansion has been such a total wash for me that I haven’t touched new content since 8.1, except to try and get rid of this stupid corruption appearance; and I have actively avoided all the new material as best as I can. I won’t be buying Shadowlands, and I flip the Blizzard launcher off each time I turn my computer on.
The only reason I stick around is to roleplay with friends. I get the Warcraft universe I love, minus the terrible new stories. I get to go on adventures with friends, I get to have exciting, thrilling battles that are unique. There aren’t millions of other players killing the same raid boss that I am; the enemy I kill dies once, forever, and it will always be my kill and my kill only.
I have to carve out the victories and joy that I want from the game; you cannot expect Blizzard to give you what you want. To do so is simply folly.
People crap on roleplayers all the time, but it is the only way I’ve justified staying with this game since day one. I’m the one who gets to have legendary experiences that are unique, where my choices/my character’s choices are the ones that matter.
I even get art (h/ttps://tinyurl.com/ardentart) done of all of my guilds’ campaigns, and those are so far from imaginary; they’re epic, and they will last for eternity.
Who cares if it’s an experience just for me and a few friends? It’s a game, just enjoy it. And you’ll spend less time being angry because Blizzard didn’t put out a story specifically for you.
You are very close, but it’s more trite than that. Saurfang died for the Horde’s sins, so they could be forgiven. They literally made him the green skinned messiah.
But at the same time I don’t think this holds water.
If the only thing standing between a faction of the Horde’s members (Sylvanas loyalists) and genocide (Teldrassil and continued support of the war after that) is whether their warchief likes them or not (Orgrimmar mak’gora), there’s something inherently flawed about the characters in the first place.
One orc dying, and one warchief calling people out for being worthless, does not (in my opinion) sound like the right recipe for suddenly not wanting to commit genocide anymore. Like - you don’t just swing on and off about genocide like we’re picking which horse to bet on.