Once you are don with the raid, you won’t have any reason to. It’s not goingto become an expansion hub, Like Darnassus, it will go back to being neglected when the next expansion begins.
In all honesty, the Horde players should have been excluded from the creation of the seed, and saving night elves from Torghast. Considering that they were the ones that helped with that fiasco.
Again going to my earlier point either in this thread or another one, it’s far too soon to accept anything that the Horde has done and will ultimately be the downfall of the Night Elves. Five years is not an acceptable time for overcoming grief. Even for us normal humans, it takes far longer depending on the event for us to forgive those who have wronged us. Especially when it’s genocidal acts.
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Eh. I’d agree, except for a couple things.
Quick forgiveness is a thing in Warcraft. We all forgave the Garrosh War / Third and a Half War stuff in just a couple years, long anout for join forces for Legion. When the planet seems to be on a bi-yearly cycle of extinction-level events, it makes sense to stop holding grudges. Heck, Zanda Trolls were everyone’s enemy in Cata and MoP, but the Horde just let that slide come BfA. Dark Irons were in a similar circumstance pre-Cata.
This isn’t being presented as the entire Horde earning forgiveness; just one soldier (the Player) who really had no control over what Sylvanas’s actions would be. Yeah, the Horde did a Teldrassil, but the orc warrior Guldanramsey is no more culpable for his commander’s seemingly spur-of-the-moment choice to torch everything than
And then there’s Tyrande herself. Yeah, when it came to the Nightborne she was snippy. But historically? She has always been presented as someone willing to give people a chance to redeem themselves for past crimes. Illidan, Maiev, the Shen’dralah, also the Nightborne, and more. For her to look at the Horde player and say “well, maybe not you footsildier” would be more out-of-character for her than to give them a day pass into her new city that they just worked hard to protect.
Should Horde players have been locked out of content (IE the stuff you mentioned from Shadowlands to present) for playing Horde? I don’t know. I’d like to think not, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, and you have reasons for having that opinion that are valid.
But at the end of the day, Blizzard didn’t lock the Horde players out of content. So the Horde player did (if Night Fae) rescue night elf souls and work with Shandris to find a way to save Tyrande. And then the Horde player did save Tyrande’s life, and watch the seed of Amirdrassil be created. Then was trusted with the location of said seed. And now has gone ahead and worked to defend that seed.
And given the Horde player was never a part of the overall command structure of the Horde, more just a special agent but still just a soldier, and given Tyrande isn’t known for her racial hatred, and given Tyrande has a history of allowing people to earn redemption, and given this isn’t an invitation for the entire Horde and is just for the player, and given it’s a very limited invitation at that?
I’d say it does make sense.
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Jaina still hasn’t forgiven Garrosh and likely Aethas (even though it was a rogue member of the Sunreavers, he still caught her ire.). Nor has anyone in Kul Tiras. Hell even going back further they were still upset over Daelin’s death when you as the Alliance player go with Jaina to try and get them to come back to the Alliance. And many are likely still upset at the Horde over Garrosh bombing Theramore.
What Blizzard could have done differently is make Horde content for SHL and Dragonflight instead of making them go through the same content as Alliance as they have done in the past. Like Legion in Stormheim you went through a different set of questline than the Alliance at the beginning and near the end.
Technically if you played as a Banshee Loyalist, you were technically supposed to be Sylvanas’ trusted confidant next to Nathanos who acted as a spy during the Saurfang rebellion. So you did have some pull so to speak.
Tyrande once attacked a bunch of Alliance camps during WCIII. Tyrande isn’t known for racial hatred my foot.
But she did forgive the Horde.
Likewise, I don’t expect Tyrande to become besties with Sylvanas when they next meet up.
No, you didn’t. You were treated as a spy, feeding her intel. At no point is there even the implication that you are anything but that.
Uhm…
You do know she didn’t attack them for being human, right? She attacked them for being invaders (in her eyes).
Yeah, they could have done that in Shadowlands, sure.
But I don’t think Dragonflight would have been a better expansion if we had the Emerald Dream, but only for Alliance, complete with an Alliance-only raid, but also this entire other storyline endgame zone for Horde-only, with a Horde-only raid.
That sounds actually horrible.
And the alternative is just dropping the Seed plot entirely or letting it fizzle like a wet fart. Because the Seed is hyped as being super-special from the second it appears. When it needs to be hidden in the Dream, it’s because of that super-specialness. If something gets hyped as that special, it has to make a big debut. Big debuts need stakes. Imagine if instead it was just “and then we woke up Tuesday and suddenly there was just a tree, and it’s just here now. No content though, it’s just a thing that is here.”
That sounds so anticlimactic, the same people upset about the Horde player being given a day pass would be equally upset that Amirdrassil is just a thing that is there, and serves no greater purpose, especially after that bit of build-up.
So you have a middle ground. You have a whole new elf tree, full of content to bring it to life, soon to be full of vendors and stuff. And the Horde isn’t allowed, but the Horde player, who happened to have done a lot to atone for simply being a part of the Horde, is allowed to walk around under heavy scrutiny.
… My snarky side really wants to go off on a rant about how the Horde player should by now basically be an adopted kaldorei for the number of times they have worked closely with either Malfurion, Tyrande or Shandris, but maybe I’ll let that bugbear loose later.
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Just now realizing that the horde player has done more to save alliance races than the alliance has.
At this point horde players are like
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I don’t know so much about that because everything the Horde player can do is also available to the Alliance player. But…
The bugbear is coming out.
But!! Of all the leaders in WoW, do you know who my blood elf hunter, member of the Horde has worked with the most outside of a faction war?
Malfurion and Tyrande.
This is probably an exaggeration, clearly, but the sheer number of times I’m paired up with one or the other of them is striking.
Malfurion in Hyjal. Then the Molten Front and Firelands.
Malfurion in Val’sharah, where he forces me to ride him and then help him and his friends. Then Tyrande shows up.
Then I gotta rescue Malfurion in Darkthing Whatever, so he can raid lead me in the Emerald Nightmare.
Oh, Tyrande needs me now over in Suramar.
And now Shandris is here, making me go look for Tyrande in the Maw.
Now I gotta save Tyrande’s life in Ardenweald.
Now I get to chill with both Tyrande and Malfurion in the Omaha Plains, in some place called the Ancient Bow.
Cool, Shandris is back, and now she wants me to kill fire guys and to some obstacle-avoiding mini-game so I can go visit Amy Drussles, whoever she is.
Now Tyrande’s back, and we’re besties again because I like trees.
And… I’m pretty sure I’m missing some!! I have been a loyal friend and ally to Tyrande and Malfurion, except for that one gosh-dang time when Sylvanas decided to burn a tree. I’m pretty sure I was on the verge of being an honorary Stormrage-Whisperwind before Sylvanas screwed everything up, because Cthun knows I have been acting like the right hand sniper-archer for these elves for years!! They were going to invite me over for Winter Veil dinner, but the letter got lost in the mail right after the Burning!!
My personal invitation to chill on Amirdrassil is well-earned. I shall stand on the shores and fish as Alynsa Stormrage-Whisperwind for all the personal service I have given to this couple.
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My view on the matter is that for gameplay reasons all races/factions participate in certain events but by lore standards, even if left untold, only a specific race/faction actually did some storylines.
Like what happened with Onyxia where everyone raided her but Varian/Alliance got the kill.
With Tyrande’s quest line in Ardenweald, most likely it was a Night Elf who actually saved her.
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That was my point. Horde players spend a ton of content saving alliance races and leaders but alliance players rarely spend time helping the horde with their issues
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I mean…
Most of the time, the Horde issues are that the Alliance exists and we need to solve that.
So I can see why the Alliance players aren’t really too keen on the idea of helping us solve our problem…
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For some reason Sylvanas loyalists were still undermining Sylvanas’ efforts in Shadowlands, even if they didn’t join the Night Fae, they still went to defend Ardenweald when Sylvanas lead the Mawsworn to attack, and then the Sylvanas loyalist went on to help Tyrande survive the power she picked up that she slaughtered the Horde with at Darkshore. So even Sylvanas loyalists were made to do atonement work before Dragonflight, making it so even their efforts to aid the Night Elves defend Amirdrassil is not without precedence.
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In ESO each expansion you help out a nation that is from one of the factions, and they even throw a big party for you at the end, even if it is a nation from a faction you’re at war with.
Of course, different games with very different faction dynamics, but I think the general message here is that Tyrande and the night elves’ desire to rebuild and move on is bigger than any grudge, doesnt mean forgiveness has happened, but that pushing conflict at this point isn’t productive.
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Or it’s more of a cover since the only person who explicitly knew was Etrigg. And he’s not going to snitch you out. That seems more likely and more realistic in my eyes.
Except that theyre not really rebuilding. Rebuilding would be recovering Darkshore and Ashenvale and even Shal’anir in Val’sharah.
I really do not buy the whole kumbayah thing that they’re going for and it takes away from the identity of the Night Elves. Like again, they have lived for thousands of years. Tens of thousands. If they havent forgiven Azshara and Xavius then the Horde shouldnt get a free pass.
And like Nightlighter said its more likely that the player character that helps save Tyrande is more than likely an Alliance one. As its been written before.
It makes a lot more sense versus the Horde helping. I don’t think Blizzard cares about consistency.
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Have Azshara or Xavius tried to make amends? Sued for peace? Like… Done anything to end hostilities? You keep making these analogies that ignore any context beyond enemy.
The Horde as a whole isn’t getting forgiven. I keep repeating it and you don’t seem to see it when I type it, but this isn’t a “the entire Horde gets to chill in Amirdrassil” situation.
The Horde player, and two tauren.
That is it.
The Horde player who, regardless of what head-canon you choose to go with to ignore it, has in fact put in the work to make amends.
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Hamuul is the best Tauren. He gets a free pass to wherever he wants to chill. So do the horde players for selflessly saving the world numerous times now
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It’s not even a free pass, given a Horde player is still under scrutinous watch while visiting.
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I’m just saying hamuul doesn’t need to be watched. Dudes helped save the world numerous times now and he’s been largely neutral.
He’s as above scrutiny as one can get
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Hamuul has always been neutral. He even publicly called for working with the Alliance in Before the Storm to Sylvanas’ face while she was warchief.
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