Except it isn’t the Horde’s defeat. It’s the Warchief. The other half of the Horde gets to play noble. Whether the Alliance wins or not is irrelevant, the Horde will always win.
Acceptable losses, we made the Alliance suffer far worse, and what few victories they had were hollow or shared with us.
The Alliance has never been a match for the Horde.
No we didn’t. The Horde lost multiple NPC’s and both war fronts. Where as any loss the Alliance suffered was either reversed or mirrored on the Horde’s side.
The Alliance has always been a literal match for the Horde.
Darkshore was a reversed win, back to neutral, and Arathi is arguably returning to the status quo., which would be neutral, or loss of a contested zone, which would break even with claiming Ashenvale.
Teldrassil is a permanent ash pile and so are almost all the Night Elves. Extermination, baby! Meanwhile the Forsaken evacuated, we gave as good as if not better than we got in the battle, we plagued it in a brilliant move robbing them of both of their objectives, and from what I see the Forsaken are already starting to move back in. If you’re counting both of those it’s a total Horde win, baby! Yeah!
This isn’t Game of Thrones, it’s Stratego, and we made some excellent gains this turn.
We don’t have Ashenvale.
But otherwise yes. The Horde’s goal was to stop the rebuilding of Stromgarde and retain control of the Thandol Span. We have failed to do so, thus a loss. Also the status quo, as of Cataclysm, was Horde control of Stromgarde. In Legion we lost Galen Trollbane, but to a third party with no Alliance presence to indicate a change in territory. Now in BfA we have lost Stromgarde.
The number of Night Elves that remain was sufficient to route the Horde offense and retake their lands. Pile of ash or no, the tactical situation remains unchanged and so the loss of Teldrassil is balanced by the loss of Undercity.
You know what, maybe you’re right. Sure the Horde accomplished not a single one of its objectives. The Alliance accomplished every objective it had. And despite these losses you’re cheering about, the Alliance still has the power to route and defeat the Horde in every battleground. But maybe this is a victory for the Horde. Stranger things have happened and I would not be completely shocked if someone from Blizzard stepped up and declared that, against all reason, the Horde was victorious.
I’m done discussing this with you. I’d like you to take from this exchange three things. First, actually read people’s posts, and when you’re coming into an exchange halfway through, read the posts they are responding too. This will avoid embarrassing situations where it takes 3 posts to explain to you the topic. Second, I’m serious about proofreading your posts, we’re not mind readers and your thoughts aren’t interesting enough for most people to put in the effort to decipher them. Thirdly, you come off as really defensive when someone says something you disagree with. It makes you unpleasant.
We exterminated all the Elves living there, kind do.
Partially. We never lost Ashenvale. They’re a dying breed now, the Night Elves, more warriors left than they can use in a stable society. Not enough mothers left to raise the next generation of soldiers, even if they did ever wipe the cobwebs off their junk. Countless years of experience gone, and they can never get it back, they’re mortal now. They’re past their prime thanks to the Horde.
They fought Forsaken in Darkshore, but the Orcs and Trolls are on their doorstep, poised to strike the death blow the moment they tire of Baine’s peace. The new Maghar leader looks raring for a fight. The Vulpera seem oddly spiteful little beasts, they might do something since they consider the Alliance evil.
The tactical situation is oh so very much changed. Night Elves’ victory is a hollow one. They’re doomed, and deep down, they know it.
Only the ones that didn’t matter, except the blowing up of our ships. But then we crashed theirs the next patch so that’s even now too.
If I defeat a nation in three skirmishes but they exterminate most of my people in one battle, they won fewer battles, but won the war.
Same with the fourth war. Our victories were decisive, devastating, and lasting. Theirs were hollow and short lived, nearly phyrric. By the last patch even their military could only match the rebel half of the Horde, and now that half has merged with the loyalists’, making ours much stronger.
The Horde won this war, it’s only by Baine’s kindness that the Alliance even got an armistice.
In fact, as you can see in the Terror of Darkshore Cinema, they fought the entire Horde, probably making the Alliance’s victory possible in the first place as they had to further split their forces.
The Alliance wasn’t available to the Black Moon Army anyway, because they did what they wanted and Anduin had no access to it, so nothing changed for the Alliance in that case.
A supply line is not the entire Horde.
But the camp…was full of NPCs of all kinds and that was the base of the Horde, not just goblins and undead.
and as Saurfang said, Malfurion and Tyrande would probably have been too much for the Horde to defeat the night elves in time for the alliance to occur, and the night elves + alliance would have been too much for the Horde.
So either the Horde is so weak and incapable of defeating two heroes (the entire Horde), or these two are so extremely powerful that the war for the night elves’ territories would be now an insane waste of life and resources for the Horde.
Slip some poison in Tyrande’s food, gg.
Just because there are representatives of every Horde race in the base, that doesn’t mean the entire Horde was in Darkshore. Some units, yes, but not the entire Horde.
The Horde was spread out on Kalimdor and in the Eastern Kingdoms. Not to mention Zandalar, Broken Isles, etc. If the entire Horde was in Darkshore, then the Alliance would never take the place.
You’re my new favorite Horde poster. You embody the “Lok’tar Ogar!” that’s been missing since the days of Garrosh. No amount debbie downers can take you out. Instead of speculating you look at the straight facts, the Blizzard facts.
When did “Straight” and “Coiled and bent worse than a snake mating ball” swap meanings?
It never did.
If one looks at the war at face value then the Horde has not lost as dramatically as Horde posters would like to headcanon.
Now now, don’t get me wrong, I think it has to suck playing Alliance and getting the taste smacked out of your mouth by the Horde every three expansions and watching us blow up all the cities while you piddle around shaking your fists at us and managing to do zero lasting damage, but face that facts, we did win that one.
Maybe you’ll actually win the next one, do more damage to us than we do to you. Make us lose more than just a scapegoat faction. It’s unlikely, but let’s hope, it’s getting kinda pathetic to watch for me too.
My main point of contention is using “Straight facts” and “Blizzard” in the same sentence.
Horde undeniably came out on top in BfA. But that’s to be expected as the favored faction.
Ah, that’s what you meant. Yeah, I interpreted it the way Kastrieren did as well.
But yes, Blizzard seems to be big into the Horde while the Alliance is our window dressing of a foil. Giant orc statue, right up front.
I don’t think I could play the team that nominally is the Horde’s equal but in practice is the punching bag, only winning when you team up with us or when it doesn’t make a difference.
And Dazar’alor, an Alliance “victory.” It’s hilarious.
Ooh, Rastakhan’s dead! He was dead already, and we get to put Horde sympathizer Talanji on the throne. Thanks, Alliance! A bit embarassing you managed to do that, but I’ll take it! We should let you “win” more often!
Horde needs more proper champs like you.
Nah.
If you meant to reference gulags, Siberia might have been a better comparison than Moscow. The point you were making would have been a little more obvious.
From the outside viewpoint of players who like the whole faction, and might even like the warchief, that’s still a defeat.
Whereas I’d like her to get off my side because she’s making my side look bad.
Is it really just about one side being made/look bad?
So you admit not to be neutral but to try to present your side better?
In the lore-Forum? The rp forum is on the other side…but here we are in the lore forum^^