Then you’d have to say the alliance is absolutely justified in attacking the Zandalari, killing them, feeling good about it, because after all the alliance has been at war with the Zandalari since the Cata/MOP era.
I mean, you understand my criticism of this. I would much rather have more recent events as a reason, Daelin has been around too long, too few have experienced him, too many only know stories that could go from exaggeration to myth.
My criticism is simply that Daelin would not be enough, not enough after an event like Teldrassil. In my eyes it overshadows everything, I can’t even play my horde character properly anymore, because it still feels wrong.
I would have wished for the Alliance to really take revenge, there really are consequences …where I could have gotten motivation to play the Horde faction again because I want to defend it, but it’s just too…one-sided.
Technically they’ve been at war with Zul’s rebel faction going against orders from the man they actually did kill.
A more accurate example would be the Alliance feeling good for fighting the orcs because of the Second War. Which is fine. It is good that players are able to engage in the story in a way that makes them feel justified in their actions.
More recent events would be better. Alas, we don’t have those. So at the very least we could shed some light on what happened the last time Kul Tiras and the New Horde came to blows and get to remember the lives lost as a forewarning of what Kul Tirans are capable of.
That is fair. For me, while I hate that this war began with Teldrassil, my love for the Darkspear and the Echo Isles was enough to get me invested in, if nothing else, defending them from their old enemies.
I just… Didn’t even get the old enemies part. The story just kind of ignored that plot thread.
Well, Dazar’Alor I would have wished for less Alliance-heavy and more Kul’Tiras-heavy, that the nation of Kul’Tiras would actually attack the nation of Zandalar with a little help from the Alliance, but well, that would probably have made the Zandalari look too weak.
He was officially travelling on behalf of Rastakhan, so no matter how much Rastakhan wanted to get rid of him, the responsibility falls back on the whole Zandalari empire.
Having it mostly be Kul Tiras would probably make more sense if nothing else. As close as they are on the map I have to assume they’ve been naval rivals for a long time.
True, but he was also supposed to be scouting for a new land to settle in case Zandalar sank.
He just… Took some extra steps. Rastakhan even forbade him from resurrecting the Thunder King. Zul was acting mainly as a rogue element.
It does create some interesting potential conflict between pandaren and Zandalari within the Horde. I hope that gets addressed but I am guessing it’ll just get swept under the rug.
This quest has resulted in a war between Zandalari and the Alliance, but if a 20-year-old history without further wars with Kul’tiras ensures that the Horde is still at war, then the Alliance must be allowed to do the same, and so there’s no more complaining about Dazar’Alor; after all, the conditions are only identical.
true, but we will never see adressed them, because" We are a family…or…something else…but family…yeeaaah"
This seems like a weird attempt at a “got’cha” moment. It doesn’t really work for a couple of reasons.
Mainly because Daelin was the sworn ruler of Kul Tiras with a fleet of Kul Tiran ships. He wasn’t a rogue element of Kul Tiras who had gone off orders. The equivalent would be if King Rastakhan personally lead the fleet to attack the Alliance.
You could argue he wasn’t representing the Alliance proper at the time though, which some people do.
Also just because some players might feel justified in killing Rastakhan for what Zul did does not mean I, as a fan of the Zandalari, don’t get to complain about it. Just like me feeling justified in attacking Kul Tias over what Daelin did wouldn’t mean Alliance players wouldn’t get to complain if we burned down Boralus.
I am still perfectly capable of thinking it was a dumb waste of a character even if Rastakhan was a complete monster who ate Kul Tiran babies for dinner every night.
A leader - and Zul was also the leader of half of the entire Zandalari fleet in his time - was dispatched and brought war and death to innocent people.
Both did so of their own free will.
both felt it necessary
both brought much suffering and death to innocent
Both were blinded
and both eventually brought ruin to their kingdoms.
The only difference is, Zul betrayed Rastakhan later, Daelin didn’t. Daelin betrayed his daughter and the peace between her and the horde after the third war and mt. hyjal.
No. The difference is that Zul went against Rastakhan’s orders and was acting independently from Zandalar proper.
What Zul was allowed to do: Scout out a new homeland and unite the troll tribes under a single banner.
What Zul was not allowed to do: Ally with the Mogu and resurrect Lei Shen in an attempt to conquer the world.
What Zul did: Unite the troll tribes and ally with the Mogu and resurrect Lei Shen in an attempt to conquer the world.
Equating Zul with Daelin in this scenario is fine as both were in charge and doing their own thing without the full knowledge of the organization they supposedly represented (Zandalar for Zul and the Alliance for Daelin).
But you’re equating Daelin and Rastakhan. But Zul was taking advantage of his command and doing things Rastakhan didn’t approve of. His actions don’t reflect Rastakhan’s wishes. And it was Rastakhan who the Alliance end up killing, not Zul.
Zul did that. We know Rastakhan approved of forming a new troll empire but we don’t actually know his stance on Zul’s war with the Horde and Alliance. It isn’t brought up when the Horde is negotiating with Rastakhan for some reason.
Zul was not supposed to ally with the Mogu and resurrect Lei Shen, though. We do know that much explicitly. Zul was going against Rastakhan’s orders.
They put some hostile Zandalari invaders in Stormsong Valley too. It really did seem like they wanted to make sure the Alliance PC encounters them while leveling. They appear during this quest:
After seeing how the Horde ruined one of my favourite zones (Azshara), I’d rather them not keep Ashenvale - Unless its the Nightborne / Sin’Dorei running the operations there.
I love the elvish lore, the spiritual connections of the Tauren and the Loa lore amongst the Trolls within the Horde. As for the rest … Well, I’m not holding my breath for them to make things more awe-inspiring lol
Yeah, you’re going to want to start proofreading your posts because this is not a completed thought. Or is complete, but relies entirely on a metaphor that only exists in your head and so is to obtuse to be parsed for meaning.
Ah, so it was an obtuse statement not helped by it being irrelevant to the topic. Try to read more of the thread and reconsider what you quoted in context. To give you a clue to get you started, the two choices mentioned aren’t “serve a monster, or be in a gulag.”
Unwillingly serve a genocidal warchief, or be the target of a genocide.
Yeah, the former sounds better. A lot better. Might suck watching a lot of children burn to death, but better them than me! Glad she’s nominally on my side!
Swing and a miss. So at this point you’re refusing to spend more than 4 minutes to read and comprehend the topic of discussion before spinning wildly off into your own completely irrelevant tangent.
The two choices are “Play the villain, get beaten by the hero, and then forgiven after having all of your sins pinned on a convenient scapegoat” or “Play the hero, get sucker punched by the villain, beat them after a long and costly fight, then forgive them completely, stupidly pinning all their sins on a convenient scapegoat, while doing nothing to proactively diffuse them as a future threat.”
That is the topic you have engaged on and those are the two stories that I was referring to way back when you quoted.
If your next post is relevant to those two scenarios, I’ll respond. If you continue to flail around like a spastic chihuahua throwing out whatever edgy line he thinks will get a reaction, I won’t.
Except you don’t get beaten by the hero. You get to be with the villain for all of the fun mass murder nigh-genocidal shenanigans and then join the good guys to overthrow it before karma ever comes to bite you.
Not you as an individual no. Because you pinned all your sins on that convenient scapegoat and so don’t have to suffer the consequences of the Horde’s defeat. As a fan of the Horde though, well, the Horde was still defeated and multiple significant Horde characters that you are also fans of have been removed.