I love how in Blizzard’s writing the Horde goes from outnumbered underdogs to the supreme ultimate super power that Alliance could not hope to stop because reasons.
Never change Blizzard. Never change.
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Actually most cities aren’t in the heart of their territories. Most are on the edges or close to it. Mulgore and Ironforge (and maybe Undercity if you count Silverpine) are the only two that are literally in the heart of their lands. Orgimmar may be the only city that’s backed up TO another race’s territory but that was how it was intended. Because they were meant to be in direct opposition to one another.
You mean “It’s super great to listen to Horde players talk about how they should rightfully be able to build a city 20 feet away from one of Night Elf lands and not really having a leg to stand on in refuting them.”
And who’s fault was that?
No. Vanilla Wow horde was much more GREEDY then the Alliance in terms of territory. They were given HUGE amounts of land that no one (other then the Quillboar) cared about; more then they even DESERVED, and yet they still want more. All that land they’re grabbing at, belongs to someone else. They don’t have a right to it just to “make it fair.”
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I like the idea of Ashenvale being split into two sections as it does alleviate most concerns I’m seeing, giving the Horde some personal space and the NE get everything they need to motor around the NE territories while losing nothing really of value.
My big thing is if this was ever done in game the NE side would easily be able to form a zone by itself, but the Horde side to the east of the river would be… kinda small. If it was baked into Azshara or something then I could see it being playable, but then Azshara would have to be MASSIVE.
Still a neat thought and perhaps the best idea I’ve seen so far. Would keep the door open for future Silverwing/Warsong shenanigans as a bonus.
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Exactly this. The Alliance has no power or ability to MAKE the Horde give Ashenvale back.
The only real question is “Does the Horde feel guilty enough to GIVE it back.” Which is ultimately up to Blizzard.
But considering the Horde lost Undercity and Arathi, they’re probably not going to be in the mood to lose what little territory they actually gained in this war, regardless of how guilty they feel about it.
Alliance agrees to abandon Tirisfal, including any and all future claims to it. This seems like a good value to the Horde because they are not aware of how most former Lordaeronians now consider themselves citizens of Stormwind.
In exchanage the Horde abandons Ashenvale, including any and all future claims to it. This seems like a good value to the Night Elves because they are not aware of how repulsive Orcs and Tauren find the smell of cat piss and how deeply uncomfortable they get fighting Night Elf men wearing tankinis.
It now looks like both sides got something in the peace agreement so nobody looks weak, they just look like their priorities are different. In reality, the story just reset to status quo.
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A phased version just feels … fake, somehow, though. (shrug) I admit it’s not necessarily rational, but this thread is asking about what we want, so.
That would be a NO right there. Remember the Horde didn’t regret anything of what they did while they did it and after they did it, so if it comes down to the Horde deciding if it should keep the lands or not, they will keep it 100%.
The only hope (for me) is that the Night Elves reclaimed it themselves, but what can 10 remaining Night Elves do against the entire Horde.
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I mean, if the Horde actually gets something in return, I can see them more willing to agree.
The issue then becomes, the NEs are refusing to sign the armistice anyway. Tyrande has made it clear that, until she has her vengeance on Sylvanas, the NEs are still at war with the Horde. And since that’s not happening until at LEAST the end of the next xpac, there’s really no point in the Horde bargaining over the territory.
The Forsaken just need to give up on the EK and start over in Theramore.
Which is something I’d really like to avoid if possible, because I don’t want this entire expansion to have just been an exercise in futility.
And yes, I know some snarky wise*** is going to go “It already was!”
Good on them. They should respect and treasure the lands that our savior, Lorash Sunbeam, fought and died for!
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You know South Korea never signed the armistice that ended hostilities during the Korean war. Technically North Korea only has an agreement with the UN to not attack South Korea. South Korea has been legally free to attack North Korea for over 50 years.
If the Horde signs an agreement with the Alliance that leaves the Night Elves Ashenvale, AND puts them in a situation where the only way they can attack the Horde is by themselves with whatever resources they can scrounge together in the smoldering wreckage of their nation, I don’t think it matters. Or at least, it will look like it matters little enough to justify the Horde signing.
As far as how the story actually goes, I look forward to the Horde negotiating an honorable peace that returns to the Night Elf their land, only to have them attack anyway.
I felt the exact same way when the expansion started. I was very much of the opinion that, whatever else happens, I want to see these events change the world. But now, I’m tired of it.
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::He would look at Darkshore.::
Darkshore doesn’t matter when the Horde can just easily reconquer it, launching attacks from Ashenvale.
In the shadow of a burnt-out tree containing the ashes of countless fleeing innocents that Malfurion had been fighting and failed to protect, much less rebuff the invading army?
In a warfront where Malfurion randomly appears as a floating head when the trees regrow but otherwise isn’t present? Where Tyrande isn’t present, either? (Again, I reference the Nathanos/Tyrande fight, which has been picked apard ad nauseum already.)
The warfront did do well at showing off all the cool night elf units. But, like Malf and Tyrande, they and their ludicrous power levels don’t mean anything at all when the writers decided that the night elves are going to lose.
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I feel like it isn’t fair to bring up the scenario cutscene, because you aren’t one of the fervent super saiyan undefeatable elves supporters. but at the same time, we’re treated as infant new kids where our GREATEST warrior was petrified of Malfurion 10000000000000000000000000% certain he was going to die fighting him. Our soldiers die screaming, being buried by him. The one who survives is turned into a PTSD shellshocked noncombatant who knows only one thing: Fear of Malfurion and Tyrande.
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That’s fair. I did think it was ridiculous that Malf could even out-melee Saurfang when unarmed and not in any shapeshift form. He’s got awesome druid powers. He can turn into a bear and eat faces if he wants to melee. He doesn’t need to be a barehanded/gloved combat god, too.
And warrior heroes really need better rep in the magic-dominant current cast. I expected cleave-memelord Saurfang to dominate melee combat and was disappointed that he didn’t.
I didn’t mind this so much, but that’s probably because of my own internal assumptions that this is how non-elite NPC-tier Alliance soldiers would react to, say, getting chased by Sylvanas in banshee form, or nearly getting eaten by a giant loa-devilsaur.
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I could write an essay on how warriors have been undersold since whoever took over the setting’s lore took over. I’m so salty about it.
That’s another thing I wanted to bring up, but didn’t feel it was fair to do so. Our only power house was Sylvanas. She’s gone now. We have absolutely zero (0) powerhouses – let alone literal or exaggerated demi gods.
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It doesn’t matter. When it comes down to it, Tyrande will only be as strong as… Zekhan maybe? In a similar way that they made her as strong as Nathanos even with the powers of a goddess.
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Nathanos’s patron (matron?) is a literal or exaggerated demi goddess.
I’d rather give the Horde an actual powerhouse than have to sit through another wave of salt like the Tyrande-vs-Nathanos scene caused.
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That’s another reason I wanted Saurfang (representing the warrior hero) to be on the same level as the heroes he was fighting.
PvP constant class imbalances aside, warriors aren’t presented as being automatically weaker - the common footsoldier may have warrior abilities, but notable warriors are supposed to be pretty powerful, too.
And I feel the warrior thematic is really fitting for the Horde. They are the ragtag survivor faction - so, your enemy has a fancy flashy spell? Get up in their face and don’t give them a free second to cast it!
I’ve got a great warrior post saved from the old forums somewhere. I’ll see if I can dredge it up.
Edit: Nuuu, the old forums seem to be completely unreachable now. My link just redirects me to the wow homepage. 
Anyway, while I don’t remember the whole thing, it was a few paragraphs in the tone of:
“When a mage wants to block another caster’s spell, they elaborately twist the underlying threads of the universe to undo their opponent’s own attempts. A warrior HITS THEM IN THE FACE SO HARD THEY FORGET WHAT MAGIC IS.”
And that’s the sort of tone I want to see from warrior heroes. Unstoppable fury warriors who charge into the fray regardless of what their enemies do to stop them, stalwart prot warriors who shrug off even the most deadly of blows, and calculating arms warriors who know just how to land the perfect hit to hurt and debilitate their opponents.
Warriors already have all sorts of crazy and awesome unrealistic abilities - so why make them suddenly so much less powerful than a similar-or-equal-tier magic character?
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