That’s Chronicle Vol 1…
No it’s not… You are making the claim that the Kaldorei warred with the Dark Trolls over Hyjal, which Chroncile explicitly says Hyjal was left untouched by the Kaldorei empire.
The Burden of Proof is on you…
I am not making a claim. I am reciting the lore, which you are conveniently ignoring lol.
Povs are canon just povs can be wrong
If they’re wrong then they’re not canon. Do you even pay attention to your own thoughts?
Chronicle is canon, Stevanos Dancaller is just an idiot who didn’t want to get called out.
If they are wrong it’s still canon they believed they where right lol do you not understand how POV works like when Sylvanas says she is gonna free us from the prison that’s like her opinion man
I agree it doesn’t do nuance. Everything else throughout BfA before, up to, and after that line, shows both the Horde and Alliance armies to have been pretty exhausted, so holding on to that one line and then inferring from it that Horde came out as the superior force is I think really reading into things that are not there… and, well, if we are gonna cling to things like that then I am going to be petty enough to point out the difference between “may” and “is” in this statement being offered up as the definitive proof of the state of the factions armies.
As for Chronicles, they are the Titans PoV, but still canon in the sense that they are the most recent definitive source we have for most Lore questions until Blizzard decides to revise or add something to them.
If people are gonna cling to that I am gonna cling to the fact that the horde can’t even fight naga in the vulpera quest without fox help
And which page showed that fighting around Hyjal was wrong.
Actually you’ll find you brought up that point.
With the specific claim that the wild gods were both friends with the Dark Trolls and that they would aid them in a war against the Night Elves, which would have to happen to relocate the Dark Trolls.
I would not make a binary argument like that since I’m not sure the Dark Trolls on Mount Hyjal were displaced or killed like the rest. Or even that any lived there at all, given that we rarely see Wild Gods and humanoid cohabitation.
You in fact are. You are making many claims. Just in the quoted section you have claimed.
“Cenarius and Old Gods were friends with Dark Trolls.”
“Dark Trolls can’t be removed from Mount Hyjal without violence.”
“Dark Trolls definitely lived on Mount Hyjal.”
All of these are claims. Even if you try to claim each one is a recitation of lore that you can’t seem to provide.
i mean, we generally cant do anything without someone’s help
The alliance had to kill the blood trolls for us.
It’s woefully wearisome. I was so excited for BFA because it’s been years since the Horde has just flat beat someone in a fair military encounter.
Well, I got my win. And Sylvanas immediately poisoned it by setting everything on fire.
Sometimes one line is all we get.
Sure, they are canon until retconned or contradicted by newer lore. Such is the case with all Blizzard canon.
Except, and here is where Chronicles stings. These books were pretty expensive, and one of their selling point was that they were supposed to be better. They were supposed to be definitive. They were supposed to be Blizzard the developer telling us the players and fans, what the story of WoW is. Now it turns out it’s Blizzard the developer telling us the players and fans, what the story of WoW is, if you ask a Titan.
Ashenvale should go back to the NElves, with low level lumber incursions continuing to happen just to add that spice of conflict.
As far as I know, all the zones have reverted back to status quo, haven’t they? The one exception might be Arathi, but I’m not sure whether the Alliance reclaiming Stromgarde means they now control the entire zone, or just the area round Stromgarde.
Dude, I literally showed you…
Pay attention.
No, you did. I brought up Hyjal because its one of the few places the Dark Trolls had actually settled away from the Well of Eternity. YOU are the one to suggest the Kaldorei conquered their lands from the Dark Trolls, which has no support in the slightest.
They would protect their mountain from an invading force, yes. How they feel about the Dark Trolls is irrelevant. YET we see both Dark Trolls AND Kaldorei , living peacefully among each other on Mount Hyjal. So much so, that they were Allies against the Legion in WC3…
Like the rest? We have nothing that suggests any of them were at all until Cata… Where the Dark Trolls of Hyjal were killed by the Twilight’s Hammer…
Wild Gods. Not Old Gods. And Troll druidism is a well established thing.
This is your claim. I am arguing in the premise that you set, which was the Kaldorei conquered Dark Troll Land, which is not true.
Yes, they did. Chronicle Vol 1, Page 93. the Tribe that would become Night Elves migrated from Hyjal too the Well of Eternity.
I have literally cited you direct page numbers LOL
I would prefer Ashenvale be returned to the previous status of a divided, contested territory, but if Ashenvale were given over completely to the Alliance I would shed no tear for it’s loss.
I literally quoted the first reference to Mount Hyjal made on this topic. It was made by you as part of an argument that Dark Trolls would have had to turn into Night Elves over the entire stretch of Dark Troll territory because a small population starting at the Well of Eternity and spreading out could not fight in Mount Hyjal.
So in your mind, Azshara’s arcane focused sprawling empire leaving Mount Hyjal untouched means that Mount Hyjal was always untouched? Interesting. But I’m afraid not proof of your claim.
Was Dark Troll druidism a well established thing even before Malfurion became a druid? You might be able to make an argument for loa worship, but is that really being friendly? Do the Loa really jump in to do alot of rescuing?
You know what fine. If it is my claim I abandon it. I no longer claim that Mount Hyjal would be a source of conflict in the Night Elf displacement of their Dark Troll ancestors. That’s a relief, the discussion can move past this since neither of us are claiming it.
Okay, I’ll give you that one. One of the three assumptions.
Yes, and one of them even proved your point.
So, since “my claim” that Mount Hyjal could not be fought on is no longer a point in this discussion. Lets talk about how large Dark Troll territory was, and how little mobility even hunter-gatherer societies had.
And Alleria may be wrong about the strength of Sylvanas’ forces given she does not see what the Sylvanas loyalist player sees is going on inside Orgrimmar’s walls.
Which was in response to you, making the claim that Night Elves conquered Dark Troll Land… Which Hyjal was at this time. And I have you multiple reasons why Night Elves couldn’t have fought over Hyjal, I even gave you quote from Chronicle explicitly saying they didn’t…
Not proof? LOL
The Kaldorei have held this great mountain sacred and it remained untouched by their sprawling empire
Here, let me make it crystal clear…
it remained untouched by their sprawling empire.
Untouched means untouched, my dude.
Why? Because of this…
the Queen secretly feared the Wild Gods that resided on it
Which is my entire damn point…
Loa is a broad term. Wilds Gods do for the most part. Especially in defense of their mountain.
Again… the Queen secretly feared the Wild Gods that resided on it
Except no Dark Trolls were displaced. All Dark Trolls still living pre-cata were still living in the exact same places they always had been…
It wasn’t…
I always confuse the two that don’t matter. My mistake.
Blizzard works to give us examples of things being wrong, if they are infact wrong. They didn’t give us any hints that she was wrong.
Actually, despite being the leader of the Void Elves, perhaps Alleria doesn’t have the best knowledge on defeating N’zoth, given Wrathion comes to say that our armed forces are pointless, and it is Wrathion who helps us defeat N’zoth, not Alleria.
Three lies will he offer you.