https://i.imgur.com/wFmTkP0.png
This includes the Army of the Black Moon, Amadis.
And you know what? You’ve been incredibly dishonest this entire time. Now that I’ve got my project done, I’ve had time to sit and think about what you’ve said.
You place a lot of value on the Army of the Black Moon (An entirely consolidated force of night elves and gilneans) defeating and I quote “the entire Horde.”
But the Horde was apparently splintered between sending forces to both Darkshore and Arathi, fighting two different wars at the same time with the same armies (if what you’re saying is true.)
That’d mean that the Army of the Black Moon didn’t defeat the Horde – Sylvanas did, by mismanaging her troops to get them killed. Who sends an army to two separate warfronts at the same time? Someone who wants them to die.
He says it’s the Titan’s POV and as such is unreliable. Which means it’s not canon. Leave it to you to lie and disregard what doesn’t suit being a Blizz Drone.
It’s only written from the point of view of the Warcraft gods, you know, the Titans, deities of the material universe, who are simply objectively neutral.
No it doesn’t, Treng. Tyrande was specifically noted by Anduin as not there. And none of those Night Elves were using the Night Warrior appearance:
I don’t disagree with this. If anything, and with the conflict the Sylvanas loyalist player sees inside Orgrimmar that the Alliance and Horde rebel players did not see, Alleria’s estimations of Sylvanas’ forces may not have been accurate.
It might be. Not is. And that line is spoken by about one character. The rest is basically just them talking about uncertainty of the outcome.
I see banshees as well as Nathanos with Sylvanas in the loyalist cinematic, and I assume she doesn’t travel to ICC/Shadowlands alone, meaning she took at least a portion of her forces with her.
This is also before 8.3, we have no idea how much each side loses in it, only that Baine says the Horde is stretched thin apparently.
Bottom line for the blood war is still Horde died 8 to 1 just to burn teldrassil, which housed mostly civilians, ended up losing not only darkshore, but apparently arathi too, ashenvale still contested as much as it ever was, lost their fleet, lost Sylvanas and whoever she took with her, lost Saurfang, and who knows what else that goes unsaid. So, despite the pretty vague throw away line by Alleria, the Horde doesn’t really come out looking good.
Sure, but she wasn’t challenged or corrected. Nothing Blizzard wrote is designed to cast doubt on her statement. Her idea was dismissed because Anduin and company wouldn’t trust Sylvanas to put out her own hair if it was on fire.
I think Cenarius is favorable to Night Elves even now. In fact, nature is in general, case-in-point, War of Thorns. Nature actively fought against the Horde.
I do not think Cenarius hated Dark Trolls, it would make little sense for him too. They are a peaceful races that valued nature. That’s his whole motif.
However, I do not think it matters much, because even if the Dark Trolls didn’t have his favor, Cenarius, nor the other Wild Gods, would tolerate a full blown war to occur where they live without getting involved. I also think if a full blown war was to have taken place, in which Wild Gods came to blows, it would be recorded somewhere, but it isn’t.
It makes zero sense for two peaceful races who are nature oriented, to fight each other over Hyjal without invoking the wrath of the Wild Gods. I think the evidence of a War not happening is the very fact that Hyjal, up until Cata, was still the place with the most dense population of Dark Trolls, despite Hyjal being firmly held by the Kaldorei.
The Kaldorei live peacefully with several races throughout their lands. It’s asinine to believe that they would even have to fight the Dark Trolls for it. The Dark Trolls probably just let them move in… The same way the Furbolgs and Dryads did.
You are the one who is making the claim against everything the lore shows us. If you want to say the Night Elves gained Hyjal by conquest against a like minded and peaceful race, you best come with some proof. You have none.
So this is the core of your argument. If you can provide me a canon source to support this, I’ll admit I’m beat and walk away. What makes you think Cenarius, and this unnamed group of ‘other wild gods’ would actually put a stop to a fight around a mountain that, at this time, had no connection to the Well of Eternity and Nordrassil?
Because this mountain was home to these wild gods and no one likes to see their home destroyed because of a conflict in which they are not involved and as a result of which they should not have any desire to see their home destroyed.
True, but it’s still a “may” and not an “is”, which I think is important enough. I ultimately don’t think the statement is as important as it is being made out to be in how we should interpret which army is superior as of 8.3. It didn’t go as Alleria thought at that moment, Sylvanas abandoned the Horde, and nothing Blizzard has written since then has shown the Horde to be the superior force.
Even before Nordrassil, Hyjal was a sacred place and the home of the Wild Gods. Nordassil wasn’t what made the mountain special.
“The massive forested peak of Mount Hyjal was the original refuge and sacred place to the Wild Gods, protected and watched over by Freya shortly after the ordering of Azeroth.”
Chronicle Vol.1 page 39-40
and even when Kaldorei Imperialism was at it’s height, they steered clear of the mountain due to it’s cultural significance, and a belief the Wild Gods would defend it.
" The Kaldorei have held this great mountain sacred and it remained untouched by their sprawling empire by the orders of Queen Azshara. The public believed it was out of respect for strong ties the mountain had with nature, but the Queen secretly feared the Wild Gods that resided on it."
If you’re confused at all, Zahirwrite guessing is not a canon source.
And which of these pages makes Mount Hyjal off limits to fighting?
I don’t think it is. WoW has a very limited amount of time to communicate plot points to players, it doesn’t do nuance. It’s either telling you the truth or lying to you, and when it’s lying to you there are signs.
Actually burden of proof is on both of us. I’m required to prove that it’s more likely that a minority of Dark Trolls would turn into Night Elves, since I made that claim.
You’re required to prove that the Night Elves would be unable to fight on Mount Hyjal because you made that claim.
If you wish to abandon your claim, we can go back to discussing how likely it is that a stone age society has enough internal migration that Dark Trolls over a very wide territory would all transform.
