And this thread was created to track the shaming as it was happening. I admit I bumped it quite a while after that to add some stuff. But you seem to be asking how the game now, like in SL or DF, should be treating things like the WoT. Once again, that’s a separate topic that could be its own thread.
Nope, I’m not. It’s not fun, and this game is meant to be fun. I make no apologies for that and do not think it corresponds to real life questions like the teaching of history.
So you are saying any shaming after BFA is outside the bounds of this thread?
So this pretty much goes back to my initial post then. If this game can be criticized for how it handles different cultures, races that reflect real people’s then its treatment of history can also be criticized. It sends the lesson that if something is uncomfortable, then it should be ignored.
The Horde does evil and the Alliance suffers evil and honestly if the game actually bothered to reconcile the two factions and their relationship then maybe these many elephants in the rooms can be resolved.
I am, yes. I’d make a new thread for that. Maybe I should edit the thread title to reflect it.
I don’t think they’ll ever do that until they’re ready to end the game.
That’s certainly true. And kind of sad really
thanks! sorry didn’t mean to derail your thread.
Maybe with DF and both factions working together in a faraway land, may they actually can. It could start of as some fun rivalry like a human footsoldier and orc grunt being forced to work together and by the last leveling zone they air out all the dirty laundry between them.
You don’t solve problems by ignoring them but talking about them. Thats my 2 cents on this.
There is an easy solution to the entire lore. Just delete the alliance from the game and give all their lands to the Horde like it should have happened in MoP.
Sounds good!
Is Blizzard going to refund me for all the things they deleted?
They should refund us for every terrible idea that erevien posts. 
no, but they’ll give you a an opportunity to replace it with what’s inside the Mystery Box!
Just as a reminder, you are not Horde, I am not Alliance.
No one is shaming anyone I am giving an account of my experience in regards to the post.
I could not care less about team red or team blue players and their stupid fake blame game.
If I want to shame Horde it’s done in chad War Mode, not tHe StOrY fOrUmS.
https://i.imgur.com/fekWF2w.jpg
I’m in the same boat, I play both factions and as a troll fan first and foremost, for me it often feels like: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/607899115304779788/964232914978095154/mm8v9m0utlj81.gif
But yeah- like it or not, WoW is a two faction game and as such should strive to make players on both sides feel good. I am not fundamentally against having factions or faction war, and I’m convinced you can easily tell a war story that pleases both sides even if, of course, none can ever really “win”.
And at this Bfa failed quite spectaclularly. And Shadowlands, that should bring the events of bfa to a conclusion, failed even harder.
I am still amazed they screwed up like they did when there were a million different and better ways to tell the story. Like keeping the focus of the conflict between Zandalar and Kul Tiras, or just have N’zoth manipulate everyone to do things they normally wouldn’t do. But no.
And this is why threads like this are important. Because we, the players on both sides, didn’t and still don’t, feel good about all this.
Horde players don’t feel good about being shamed for actions they had no control over, and Alliance players don’t feel good if shaming those horde players is all the resolution they will ever get to see.
With all of the enforced buddy buddy I’m seeing in the Beta, they just might be looking at closing the book at some not too distant point.
In a fight, the night elves started by shooting both Horde and Alliance in pre-emptive strikes. Or did we conveniently forget that little detail?
This is a good comment, specifically the last portion.
I see a lot of discourse of Horde players rallying to defend or rationalize events because, well, they didn’t have any choice in the matter and it’s a manner which to abscond blame that many Alliance players feel.
It’s why Taurajo gets thrown around so much because, well, it helps rationalize / defend the indefensible when in truth no one wins anything here.
Alliance players still feel victimized because they have, repeatedly, been the end of the stick with settlements getting sacked over and over, losing pretty much every battle until BfA, and when they even win it’s never a good win.
Meanwhile Horde players whom have pride in their faction and identity are just made either into warmongers or supporting colonizing Orcs over and over again. Players cannot discuss these with good faith because they are, at heart, insane positions to be in and impossible due to bad story and unrealistic narrative to make any sense of the blame game.
Does it feel good to Alliance players that the only time they can win a small battle is when they lose a major city (Darnassus, Gilneas, Southshore)? No.
Does it feel good to Horde players that they only gain positivity after they, yet again, have to come to terms with being forced into literally the villain faction as their NPCs color the entire Horde, once again, as the aggressors.
No, we all lose. We just don’t realize we’re both on the same side.
You mean in the Nightelf campaign, which comes after the orc one. So i’m not sure what your point is?
Nothing about that has anything thing to do with your claim that Thrall is a hero or that the Horde was good in warcraft 3.
I know I mention a lot that I don’t really like the Alliance I just dislike the Horde, honestly, this has only been a thing for me since BfA.
BfA felt insanely bad as Alliance doing the Zandilar campaign. So much of it felt unnecessary and I think BfA is when Alliance truly just lost what small bit of identity it had.
Heck I used to not mind being the reactionary faction at all, Horde attacking? Lets get too it and defend our villages and take the fight back to them, for the Light etc etc. But then BfA comes around and suddenly we are sacrificing our soldiers to steal some gold from a city that’s not even Horde? Were using THE VOID on the wildlife and against diplomats? Were burning trade caravans? We abandon the Night Elves?
What happened to Human diplomacy?
What happened to being a defensive pact?
Pride, nobility, courage, wisdom, honor, tradition, justice, order. All words that are used to describe the Alliance by Blizzard but I just didn’t feel that in BfA.
Shadowlands did a great job at portraying the Alliance and that “feel” that drew me to them with Exile’s Reach, hopefully, they expand upon more of that because Exile’s Reach was amazing.
And this is not to say Alliance has not done questionable/stupid things in the past.
The Goblin ship
Dalaran
Westfall
attacking forsaken emissary
tricking Pandaren into manual labor
digging up lands that are not there’s
the camp everyone talks about
The difference is while the audience can clearly not agree with these actions, you could at the very least see the viewpoint in why these characters would do these actions (maybe not the Goblin ship, that still makes no sense) even if they are wrong. In BfA? Not so much…
Unfortunately it is necessary to necro threads.
Threads that aren’t posted in in time are deleted.
This is not a permanent resource.
Almost everyone who looks in a mirror sees a hero. It all depends on your point of view. Thrall is certainly a hero to most of the Horde. And he’s presented as one in t he books that feature him.
Not a perfect hero, but there isn’t a hero on the entirety of Azeroth that doesn’t come with a package of significant flaws.
