When he’s not sending body parts to his buddy anduin, sure is 
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Andiun should have made it into a cup. That would have been pretty metal.
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That would have been hilarious. And when he meets Baine, anduin can be be seen casually sipping from it as baine looks on in horror 
the civilians nearly killed the entire horde
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I wouldn’t say that, but the civilians did do a amazing job holding off the might of the horde for as long as they did
its really hard for wow to really embody that though.
Like we don’t see troop numbers, resources, logistics or even anything close to tangible.
So statements like “The Horde suffered great casualties” or the defense was so valiant… was it? Where? This is the sort of storyline and plot point that would really work in a good book or a movie/show but World of Warcraft?
Yeah they can’t pull this off. They don’t have a proper delivery for it… and even if they do, its a timegated event and it will be gone forever if missed.
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And I get that. Which is why I think the whole thing should’ve been an illusion from n’zoth, that disappears once we finally defeat him
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lots of shouda coulda woulda’s for the past 2 expansions. And honestly I don’t think its that hard to make things more… tangible. Its just a failure of Danuser and the rest of the writing staff.
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All of BFA and Shadowlands would’ve been infinitely more palatable if it was all just a fevered dreamed caused by N’Zoth.
Wake up in Dalaran with Dadgar standing over us - “Hey, hero, wake up. You took a nasty blow to the head. Teldrassil burned? Queen Azshara? Super Kami Space Satan? What are you talking about? There be dragons!”
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You ARE both in disagreement. 
You get the crowning point in wearing the better hat.
https://static.miraheze.org/allthetropeswiki/4/40/Gilsnicehat_3200.jpg
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When I first joined this game back in 2007 (BC) I kinda thought the whole idea of being Horde was to be the bad guys. This was just going off of lore that was years before anything mentioned on this tally. Most of my friends who played WoW at the time were Horde and I recall them trying to get me to make a Horde character and saying “Just don’t make a Tauren.” in that they were ‘not Horde enough’.
After Garrosh and Sylvanas, this was kinda reinforced over and over again. Any time the factions teamed up after pretty much Cata I was like…why?..
But fast-forward to now, the Horde with the council instead of the Warshief like its been since its start is just not the same Horde. It will be interesting to see what happens I suppose going forward, I’m just glad the Alliance stayed more consistent though out (except for BfA, lord I hate BfA…)
You obviously didn’t play the RTS if that was your take. Thrall is as much, perhaps more the hero than the Alliance roles you took. The RTS fanbase was what this game was originally aimed at with an eye of expanding to those who were more into the single adventure RPG than the command and conquer that the original Warcraft put on the map.
The RTS had you play major figures on both sides and from both viewpoints YOU were the Hero.
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I did not, but at this point RTS lore is over 20 years old and was a shorter time period lorewise then all of the MMO so I dont think my take would really change.
You have a very skewed perception then. Cause most of the Horde campaign was dealing with fights Grom started. Playing a grom killing night elves. Grom drinking demon blood. Thrall having to team up with alliance to defeat Grom and demon infused horde.
very little of it paints the alliance as being in the wrong and most of it was dealing with the Horde dealing with Horde shennigans.
Its probably why when Horde players keep asking for warcraft 3 horde or thralls horde Blizzard keep repeating that very same story. Thralls horde wasn’t good it had all the same issues with Garrosh/Sylvanas horde had.
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I assume when people talk about the RTS they are strictly speaking on WC3 which is fine…but…Its like what you said, WC3 still very much have examples of Horde being, well, Horde.
Seems we’ve come full circle, with Alliance players coming into the “Horde PC shame tally” thread to shame Horde players.
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Let me first say that the following words are in no way describing Pellex or anyone of similar opinion. Its just something I realized about certain similarities of other things I have seen.
So, the current complaint is, and correct me if I am wrong, that the Horde player had nothing to do with the bad things being done so why is the game forcing them to relive it and assume responsibility for it.
This reminded me of a morning show debate about how schools should not be teaching kids about the real history of America. Whether its more recent history like America’s bloody path in combating “Communism” in Asia and South America or obviously the evils of slavery.
These parents would say this just teaches the kids to hate their country, it has nothing to do with the people today and that this just further divides people and its not their shame to carry anymore.
Since Art imitates life should Art unapologetically show the history and shame players for events they had nothing to do with? Or should it be swept under a rug? Pretend it didn’t happen? I find Art whether fictional or realistic can always be used as a tool to make people listen and care about the real world. Something they would have ignored or not fully appreciated recontextualized in another setting would make them more open to empathize.
Whether we like it or not in WoW, Blizzard has written a story and evoked a reaction. The next step is the lesson they would have us take away from it. What do we want that lesson to be?
Disclaimer though Blizzard and wow are very poor stories to ever try to pull off something this complex and delicate as this. But they are the ones that jumped into this mud and now they got to make the best of it.
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I don’t consider this situation to be analagous to BfA because that wasn’t the past—it was stuff that was happening in real time in the game. What you’re describing is more like the Horde player’s relationship to the events of WC1 and 2, which is a different topic that could be spun into its own thread.
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And that’s a problem with the alliance being morally pure and untainted. Alliance players literally have nothing to talk about outside of evil horde shenanigans and blizz forcing horde players to do things we don’t want to do, like the war of thorns
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BFA is nearly 4 years old now, the events of Garrosh nearly 10. At this point they are history and in a game where we can jump back into history and experience them first hand, as long as they are not patched out, they still remain in some capacity. The order in which we consume the story is non-linear but the story is linear and if that linearity is interrupted with characters seemingly gone through collective amnesia of what happened then it would be jarring and sends the wrong message imo.
With Dragonflight and the next expansions and books the game can further acknowledge them and thereby shaming the Horde players further or they can stop talking about it and sweep it under a rug that it never happened.
I have been in talks before with you where you stated you were not interested in being reminded again of these events, which goes back to what I posted earlier.
Honestly the only time the Alliance as a faction becomes relevant is when the Horde is slaughtering them. The rest of the time one or two races might make an appearance since the world ending threat is somehow related to their racial history.