What happened to the Stonespire tribe is just as bad, if not worse, but that always gets forgotten for some reason. Dunno why.
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Mostly because Stonespire doesn’t have an alliance character talking about how it wasn’t bad and to be angry about it is wrong.
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So we were talking about Theramore and it’s neutrality of it’s leader Jaina and how she was neutral to now you talking about…the Alliance and Camp Taurajo.
Yeah I may need to lie down and call Sherlock Holmes as to how this connects.
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As an aside, the Horde attacked the Night Elves first–cutting off supplies from that part of Kalimdor to that of the south–that’s why it was determined that a road needed to be constructed–by both the Alliance and likely Theramore that needed those supplies (lumber, mostly, I suspect.)
So…take that into account, and then take into account that the Horde were actively attacking ships in the waters around Kalimdor (including attacking a worgen ship full of fleeing refugees from Gilneas,) and you start to get a better picture for why Theramore might have been willing to work with the Alliance for this.
Does this call into question Theramore’s neutrality? Absolutely. Does it justify the use of a mana bomb? Not remotely. Especially since there had been a test of it in Stonetalon (if I recall right,) before the bomb was used on Theramore–so there was definite evidence of what it could do.
Cataclysm was the first time we got some really murky, and in my opinion, good storytelling about war–the way it can escalate in a moment in spite of everyone’s best efforts.
As an aside, I had to go back to these articles by the “Know Your Lore” team, and I found that reading them was helpful to understand both sides of the story. If you’re interested in taking a look, I highly recommend them–just so you can ground yourself in the lore of the time. Also, if you didn’t get to play Cataclysm, this will give you a good overview of the situation, too.
https://www.engadget.com/2011-04-24-know-your-lore-the-sorrow-of-southern-barrens.html – looking at things from the Horde perspective
https://www.engadget.com/2011-05-01-know-your-lore-the-struggle-for-southern-barrens.html – looking at things from the Alliance perspective
To be fair, for myself, as complex as the story was at the time, I don’t know that it was well told. But I couldn’t tell you how to have made it better without allowing more player choice–something that really hasn’t been done at all in the game, sadly. For example, what if you don’t actually want to be at war with the opposite faction? What if you don’t want to participate in those quests? What if…you could instead work at trying diplomacy? While we don’t get those choices, and likely never will, because it requires a very dynamic, changing landscape from server to server–something that I don’t think will ever be done in any MMO–at least not in a way that players can continue to play with one another within the whole of the game–still, …I think you can still tell a good story and allow those choices. Maybe your own faction betrays those efforts; maybe you’re ambushed by the other faction while trying to do your peace-making efforts. Maybe you’re one of those people that’s creating those moments–fighting against peace, instead of advocating for it. To me, …that would be a lot more interesting. And I’ll continue to hold out hope for it, one day.
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While I don’t object to having this thread bumped, what does any of this have to do with whether the writing in the game is shaming the Horde PC in BfA, Shadowlands, and beyond?
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You mean other then the fact Theramore was the Nation that destroyed Taurajo?
Seriously you don’t realise that Theramore was the nation that burnt down Taurajo?
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baine said it was a legit target
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again you people literally dont seem to understand do you, two wrongs dont make a right, you dont fight genocide with genocide.
If the horde sacked theramore, took the port and went on with the rest of the war you’d be right, but they didnt, they nuked the whole city.
You horde Literally cant have it both ways, you cant sit here and complain to us alliance about getting villian batted, then turn around and say all those actions that made you villians, are completely justified
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It didn’t make a right. And it wasn’t a genocide. Baine gave warning to get folks out of Theramore.
Destroying Theramore was done to preserve Horde lives, because Jaina refused to.
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This is your semi-regular reminder that as set out “Tides of War”, the Horde and the Alliance were not at war between Cataclysm and MoP. Garrosh’ s attack on Theramore started that war.
Please return to your regularly scheduled argument.
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Just wanted to correct this, even though it’s long past due but that’s completely wrong.
First off, this was Grond’s idea, seeing as he was the one who designed the device.
Second, the Gnomes repeatedly tried to discourage Grond from going through with it, but Grond insisted, even after seeing the side effects for himself and experiencing the effect firsthand.
It was an act of self-sacrifice of Grond’s part, as much as it was a tragic loss.
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I know. Baine was getting mad about the attack and someone else brought up the the camp as justification. Baine said it was legit, but others were saying they weren’t cool with it / a reason for the events.
So if Shandris said the burn of the tree was a legit tactic in order to make the other half of the playerbase feel good in the morality spectrum, would that be ok for you?
I wouldnt care, cause I dont spend alot of time in a dick measuring contest of what faction is better or is the most victimized
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Yet you are still here, participating in those threads.
Wanting justice for Rastakhan seems now also to be “bad”.
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How is this shame? In the same sentence you’re told how the alliance is a threat.
In no way an accurate comparison. Taurajo wasn’t a major civilization of thousands and Shandris wasn’t the leader of Teldrassil to even be able to make the call.
A more accurate comparison would be if Tyrande said that Astranaar was a legitimate target, which she would have seeing as it was being used for the same purpose.
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yeah generally wanting to war for something that was entirely your fault is bad, if the trolls didnt want to get attacked they shouldnt have joined the horde, what did they expect to happen? To invade and attack Kul’tiras but not get invaded themselves, lol
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It admittedly seems like one of the weaker examples to me, but I remember seeing that line for myself and going “ugh” for the same reason as Pellex.
Like, I get it, horde did a giant bad. It makes sense for the story to bring it up. But it still felt crappy when it’s piled onto everything else.
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