Ok I can work with this, but honestly I went just with the major event since it was most people remember(Heck literally a few mention Aurbedine as part of the casualties)
The worst part of all of these shock moments? They are never followed and just left to the imagination of the players which honestly is an insult to any playable race(like the raids done at Troll cities)
It translates to “The Horde has done awful things that must be dealt with, but we have to finish the war first.”
I’ve never seen the Alliance PC greeted with a similar sentiment when I play my current main Alliance character. Instead, the Alliance gets “Our cause is just, our hearts noble” from the Alliance war effort quartermaster. (I know that’s a standard LF Draenei greeting, but they clearly had no problem putting someone with that voice line in the position. And even if it’s an accident, it still creates a vastly different experience for the Alliance player. I’d love to have someone validate my cause that way on the Horde side.)
Well, another way of thinking about it is that this is a main character flaw within the Alliance itself, in that it once Was pure and noble but has sort of lost its way. But that doesn’t mean they don’t still believe it.
It’s common actually in war that even a war started with the noblest intentions inevitably falls into jingoism, patriotism, and nationalism.
It isn’t a flaw in the writting the portrays the Alliance as the “good and just” faction but within the Alliance’s own self narrative.
Can confirm. Dreadmoore is my main. Doesn’t happen.
The Horde’s narrative shows them to be in the wrong as well, so no. The overarching narrative as a whole reinforces Alliance as “good and just” and the Horde as “villainous and cowardly”.
Actually, that supports my suggestion. The Horde’s narrative is literally about how the horde is starting to see itself while the Alliance continues to miss the mark.
Well its really not as cut and dry as that. Theramore attacked the horde, granted it was a ‘rogue force’ but nonetheless, an act of war under the theramore banner which Jaina ruled. TBH one thing mop did really well was show how a situation could really spiral out of control.
Actually, it is that cut and dried. It seems stupid, I agree, but it is what it is.
Tides of War - p.20 - A Forsaken objects to Garrosh’s plan to attack Theramore on the basis that it will cause a war with the Allliance, i.e. the factions were not yet at war; p.22 - Eitrigg states that Garrosh’s plan will begin a war with the Alliance.
But we’re never stated not to be at war during Cataclysm. So the book is more Alliance favoritism.
Which was wrong in every way. Theramore already was in a war with the Horde during that time.
[Sighs, gives up on trying to stop thread from being hijacked]
IIRC, the game and book do not agree on when the war started.
And didn’t Chronicles do some retconning too?
The game and book doesn’t agree on when things started during the Cataclysm because the Shattering did NOT go into detail on it. As far as the story went, we went from the Shattering, to world war.
Now post Cata, based on Tides of War, it looks like the Alliance and Horde has stopped fighting at some point. I think Tides of War even stated there was some sort of treaty going on that kept the two factions in their lanes until Garrosh decided let’s go all in on war again.
So basically, it looks like there were two wars.
I’m pretty sure it was an intentional hijacking, because your initial premise cannot be argued against, so something fuzzier and vaguer was thrown in to make people start wrangling.
Reviving this thread with a question.
When I was looking at A Good War and Elegy recently, I noticed how Elegy really demonizes the Horde: it makes them into animals or microbes that the reader could never respect, or at “best” violent, uncivilized beings with no respect for anything good and decent. Yes, it’s from the POV of night elf characters, but the book does not at all encourage the reader to disagree, except perhaps in the case of a few specific characters like Saurfang.
A sample from page 40:
Note that in her mind the Horde doesn’t even walk upright! They’re crawling over the stones of Darnassus like bugs. And defacing its temple, because of course there is no one in the Horde with any respect for Mu’sha. Nope, no one at all. In her mind, they can’t even walk on grass without being destructive. This would be a nice moment of classic night elf xenophobia if the story in any way challenged her vision here.
Here’s another bit that jumped out at me, from page 29:
All the Horde is doing in this case is having a drink at an oasis in the Barrens, but they’re a stain. Yes, you could make a case that it’s just a way of stating that they’re a big dark spot from the POV of a flying shapeshifted druid, but the choice of term does convey a negative impression. I mean, no wonder (some) Alliance players react like they do, with stuff like this shaping their view of the opposite team.
Anyway, my question for anyone still reading this thread is this: do you think descriptions from Elegy should go on the list? I have tried to limit it to things that the Horde player would likely experience. I included Before the Storm because it is supposedly a general-audience book, but the two novellas that came out before BfA are targeted to different factions. Would you say Elegy is intended for an Alliance-leaning audience and therefore shouldn’t count, or would you say both books are meant to be read by all players and therefore this would qualify as “something the Horde player sees”?
I’m not sure. I would say no, because it is a pov take from a Night Elf in the story. She was defending her people and home. I like certain pov descriptions in stories.
On the other hand, you are right, there isn’t much in the story from a neutral writers perspective which doesn’t let the Horde seem like monsters.
Count it.
It is entirely possible that someone who plays Night elf can also play Horde and vice versa.
Its clearly tailored towards Alliance/NE players, but it is also canon content. Its not that different than Brennadam. Blizz hiding horrific portrayals and acts of the Horde in its races from the Horde itself, doesn’t just invalidate them. Since many players do at least have an alt on the opposing faction. Especially since “A Good War” was far less framed in that sort of emotion driven light. It was more “this is how A, B, and C events went down”.
I’d count it.
Hmmm Brennadam was really bad. I can at least understand a pov.
With those points you have me to agree with you.
I would say it counts as Horde shaming even though it is told through an Alliance perspective. It is something the Horde is being shamed in that is outside of Gameplay, and thus… how shall I put this… outside of the experiential divisional limitation that Faction choice brings.
Okay, I added it to the list.
I also, very belatedly, added Saurfang’s lines in “The Negotiation” about how the Horde has been rotten from the beginning and will never be able to match the Alliance’s virtues in a thousand years. The only reason I didn’t put that one in sooner is because I managed to avoid watching that cinematic until today.