2 topics means constant. You heard it here first folks.
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The Hordeâs problem has never been apathy. They are the weirdos, the outcasts, oddballs and so on, so forth. Theyâre arguably more empathetic than their counterpart, the Alliance.
Might makes right philosophy exists predominantly in Orc culture as the world that they live in is brutal and pitiless, so strength is a much coveted feature, alongside fearlessness and other features. Mokâgora is another face of this âmight makes rightâ philosophy and while it is also something embraced by the Horde, the Alliance has had a similar tradition for a long time, ranging all the way back to the reign of Thoradin: dueling.
The Forsaken act the way they do for more than one reason, none of which Iâll commit to text for the sake of expediency, though much of their severe actions are on the account of the world that surrounds them being outright hostile and their continued survival lies within their hands. There is no second chances and each success or failure has far reaching consequences that threaten that agenda of continued survival. They arenât uniform in their actions and the Forsaken are unique in that they are the individual, not a hivemind under the command of The Lich King.
You canât possibly hope to police the misdeeds of everyone. Thatâs sort of just an eternal fact of life. It is why law enforcement exists.
Nothing had to change with the Horde. The removal of the Warchief position alone was, in my opinion, too much and detrimental to the theme of the Horde.
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They do exist. They just never get the screen time or donât do it.
Rommath and Thalyssra are certainly capable of something extreme.
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It would be a sign that Blizzard thinks that Horde must always be a faction of villains despite any efforts to make them otherwise. At the same time, Alliance are doomed to always be all-forgiving nice guys with only the occasional temporarily angry character.
Iâd like to think theyâre trying to break out of the comfort zone with this approach but⊠Letâs see how long it lasts.
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What if I wanât to be the bad guy next time?
The Alliance has plenty of material to make it justifiable and sympathetic.
Iâm down, villain bat me.
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Actually, the only thing I was trying to rebuke with that was Carm saying we dont have topics in the front of the story page about it. But you do realize we live in the age of the internet and all it would take is to type âAlliance leader name is evil/should be a bossâ and you will see a near endless list of topics about it.
Iâd rather not spend an expansion being villain batted but if this ever happened I am hoping as many of the Horde precious zones/towns and places get demolished in the process.
Personally I like our characters and have no particular wish to see any of them get killed. Even Tyrande at the moment.
We still get to kill Horde while still being relatively good. Maybe not as many Horde as some people would want but I am ok with actually with that being the price of the moral highground.
That just seems like the making of one stagnant story arc after another to me.
How many times can they tell âHorde bad, Alliance goodâ?
Villain bat the alliance and let them commit some genocide in either the name of extreme vengeance, political power, outright racism, or all the above. Theyâre capable of it, evident by WC3.
For now I dont think this will be a problem. I expect if we are going to get another faction war it will be at least a few expansion from now.
We have seen Alliance characters get villain batted without the rest of the Alliance getting drag down the mud, Benedictus, Fandral, Darkshire, I expect Blizzard wont try to alienate the things that people actually like about the Alliance, the fantasy about being the good guys, at least for now. Especially considering it is not the most popular faction at the moment.
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Characters who stopped being loyal to the Alliance at some point and became Old God minions or whatever else. None of them were actually huge characters or all that missed. As opposed to Sylvanas who was a racial leader and had a huge fan following. Neither of which stopped Blizzard from villain smashing her and making her an enemy to both factions.
Plus she dragged the Horde through the mud.
Itâs not exactly fair that the Horde is doomed to keep getting shamed and embarrassed like this just to save the Alliance from ever having to feel bad about themselves.
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I feel like you are moving the goalposts. Here is what you wrote, that I specifically responded to. I even quoted it:
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It didnât even paint the Alliance as villains, just objectively wrong.
I guess thatâs the same thing to some people. 
No you were the one who set that goal and as show by those two posts Horde fans are just iching to see the Alliance get hit by the villain bat/turn a darker shade of gray.
You wanted the Alliance to be the villain to the Horde. You want the entire events of BfA and maybe more conflict to be less black and white. Personally I am hoping quite the opposite. The Horde has objectively been wrong for several expansions now. Maybe this whole council thing will change that dynamic, maybe not.
On the one hand as a Horde player that disliked being villain-batted twice, I completely understand your concern. I have two thoughts: 1) for pure equity reasons the Alliance needs to be villain batted for an expansion just to make up for the current inequity, and letâs be honest it will probably attract some players back to playing Alliance
But more importantly 2) having some aspects and characters in the Alliance do morally questionable things (like Jaina trying to drown Orgrimmar) is not even close to comparable to what Blizzard has made Horde players suffer through twice. Blizzard made Horde players culpable in genocide. I donât want to hear complaining from the blue side of the aisle on this issue.
Youâre gonna get villain-batted and youâll just have to like it.
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I want the Alliance to be an antagonist to the Horde. I understand that you donât know the difference between the two, so I forgive you.
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The only way the Alliance can become a true antagonist for the Horde at this point is to be villain batted.
It is more likely to turn off people then make them go Alliance. If Blizzard truly was interested in faction population parity they should add more pretty races to the Alliance/give better raiding racials.
Oh, like the way Horde fans dont complain about the entire villain batting? If this were ever to happen to the Alliance I am hoping people kick and scream just as loudly as some Horde fans.
Maybe someday, but that isnt gonna be today and something tells me it wont be in SL or even in an expansion after that.
Eh, I genuinely believe a lot of players are turned off by the modern Anduinified Alliance aesthetic, I think the Alliance showing some teeth would attract a lot of players back. Maybe not hardcore raiders, but definitely casuals.
Agreed. Tyrande will be back on the Anduin train before you can say 9.0.5
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Let be honest here, casual are probably not that interested in lore and even those that are would be attracted more by the possibly they are playing the âgood guy factionâ. If anything they would probably see an Alliance that becomes too vicious as awful.
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Thatâs not true. Azerite is a perfect example of a resource that two forces fight over.
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One thing that bothered me with Orc culture since Vanilla even was that if youâve removed every single class from the Orc roster except for Warriors ⊠nothing much would change. 9/10ths of the Orc characters are Warriors. From quest givers like Warlord Goretooth, to notable ones like both Overlord Runthak and High Overlord Saurfang. To NPCs, like how every Horde Warrior are Orcs. Not Tauren, Trolls, or Forsaken, etc. Just Orcs. The only two notable Orcs that are not warriors and are Shamans are Drekâthar, and Thrall. Thrall is even a warrior right now, seriously?!
The Orc meme is Male Orc Warrior for a reason sadly. Other than posters going âBLOOD AND THUNDER! DEATH TO ALLIANCE RAWR!â Their racials didnât help either. Their racials from Classic were basically yelling âPLAY A WARRIOR! NOTHING ELSE!â That probably helped the ball roll faster.
No wonder Orc culture never shifted from the Warrior culture to Shamanistic culture. There were barely any notable Orc shamans in the game. While there was an overload of Orc Warriors both NPCs and players.
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In vanilla the ⊠Shattered Hand(?) clan is treated like the Hordeâs SI-7. Thereâs even a Troll in it, in one of the buildings in the drag on the top floor of said building. I was always interested in them, up until WoD ruined it for me. Not that they ever did anything with them.
Hell, Iâd bet Blizzard forgot.
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