Should be all of them.
And guess what happened during BfA/SL: Alliance-players didnât want to switch over to Horde to have a raiding scene. Things have simply turned over, because the problem isnât solved.
Dwarves were always top tier, but they never got the recognition because they couldnât be used in Horde-guilds. Guess what changed.
I agree with your here but you miss the point: It does not matter, if a zone is a starter zone or not. They simply open the zones up step by step. And people do play in the neutral zones together. There were several community-driven storylines on AD about Forsaken/Horde trying to reconnect with Gilneas and it was fun to watch it.
Your feelings are valid but so are the actual mass out there on the internet. Blizzard would never have given the Alliance the High Elf subrace if there is no massive backlash behind it. All of you people think in tribalism when it comes to Blood Elves, but the producers face a bigger dilemma: A massive swift in opinions, which is seen across the globe in every official and unofficial community. And they wouldnât have gone through with this, if the majority of players agree on giving the Alliance more High Elf-related content.
They will likely give the Alliance their High Elves in Midnight, with an exchange for Void Elves for the Horde, which is the best what could happen story- and gameplay-wise.
Please. The entire xpac was a love letter to the horde. Garrosh. Grom. Every warchief. Even the warbringing cinematics were all horde bangers.
You have to cherry pick Khadgar (who also helped the horde) and Yrel (Who also helped the horde). And then Yrel is written off an le evil alternative timeline, while the horde get this new Magâhar as a permanent character. So glad we get to be your stepping stone!
Irrelevent. Illidan isnât alliance. He never was. Its not alliance story there at all. And if you want to say he is, then gulâdan is horde story. So once again weâre in the middle of a horde story the alliance has to cleanup.
Orderhalls were a joke across the board. One massive flop where they deleted sunwalker to make them just more light paladins, and deleted priests to make them all the same bland taste. But okay. Having two alliance themed ones is just âoverwhelmingâ for you. (Lightâs hope is neutral and always has been)
Oh boy. The dwarf got to speak. Stand back the horde ego is wounded.
Shame he had nothing to do the entire time but cry about WOONZ
Great! We got to throw tyrande under the bus of horde story growth again. Elune: here a super power to kill the biggest middle finger to the elves since classic started. Also Elune: HAHA just kidding. forgive her and iâm taking the power back. sucker.
Well done.
Yes. We got one patch we had to share with horde. We got to grow a tree so horde can just have all of kalimdor now. Even Gilneas had to be shared with the horde. Wonderful. That was totally equivalent to retaking a removing the blight from Undercity. Bravo.
Thanks for throwing us a bone we had to share. now the nelves can shut up and sit down.
Sorry, Undercity is lost and we donât even have access to it anymore except through Time change.
Lordaeron without any feature is there.
So, no, not compared at all with Gilnaeas.
Thanks for completely skipping my whole argument.
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As opposed to the Alliance?
- Having a race infused with the light â Alliance
- Having a race infused with the void â Alliance
Along with Anduin, Alleria and Tyrande being relevant in core-important features throughout the story. lol
Alliance canonically won every warfront â Including Darkshore.
The NâZoth patch cinematic was quite literally Anduin and Wrathion ⌠In Stormwind.
⌠Also there wasnât all too much Horde involvement with confronting and dealing with the armies of Nâzoth and himself. lol
"None. Nothing" â Right, sure mate âŚ
Every warchief that wasnât part of the Horde and majority of which were knocked over like plebs along with their clans? 
Then your argument about Thrallâs involvement with Cataclysm is irrelevant, since he forsook the mantle of warchief and became a neutral figurehead for the Earthen Ring. 
Thatâs a big ole hyperbole.
Shadowlands was hardly a âbus full of Horde storyâ lol 
Nope. The Nighelves have portals throughout their strongholds in Kalimdor. Lorewise they still hold it.
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Thats⌠exactly what I said. I donât know what you are getting at here. It seems like weâre in agreement on this?
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So your argument is that the enemy of the Horde, is Horde content?
No. In game.
Hordeâs entire quest to get the scepter of the tides? Alliance steals it back.
Hordeâs entire quest to get the corpse of Derek Proudmoore? instantly returned to the Alliance.
Alliance attacked a Horde city and killed its leader.
We didnt decide she was not a Horde leader.
The fact she was not a member of the Horde decided it.
We get multiple in depth back histories of Alliance races. And the final battle, had zero Horde representation.
I wish the game was as Horde friendly as you want to pretend.
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Oh booohoooo Camp T. /cry!!!
Great. you have one example in the same xpac where the horde blighted Southshore, nuked Theramore off the map. Took Ashenvale shore to shore, even attemping to burn down Astranaar with civilians inside it⌠Turned Azshara into an eye sore and ecological disaster. Bombed a druid school (but oh no Garrosh killed that guy! It wasnât hordes fault!!. pftt) Attacked Gilneas completly unprovoked as well as blighting it⌠and arming a once peaceful troll village in darkshore and provoking them to attack the night elves.
Yea camp T sure was a the casus belli they neededâŚ
She didnât. And even if she did, they were using a neutal city as a means to attack an allice member. They should have stood down as requested and not fight. This is what you do to domestic terrorists. you arrest them by force if needed.
And then he gave the city back. For no reason at all. Not even asking for reparations for all the war crimes the horde did. Bad horde story writing? At least theyâre allowed to actually win.
Well unfortunatly it was less than nothing for me as a Draenei. Karabor: CUT, Shattrath: CUT
Oh boy we got to kill nerzhul in a dungeon and Yrel was tossed aside into the trash bin. The entire xpansion from my perspective was orc raid, ogre raid, orc raid.
That nobody wanted. And hey iâm tired of Khadgar also. Argus was wasted so it felt terrible anyway. Illidan isnât alliance despite sharing a race with one. Legion is alliance leaning, but i still feel it was legion focused, which includes way too much screentime for gulâdan.
Suramar was wonderful though. Shame they were given to the horde.
In text after the fact. Again. Visially during the entire Xpac, it was horde winning none stop. Alliance just gets told they actually did something after the fact.
Zul deserved to be in prison. Especially after⌠setting fire⌠to a stone city⌠Withcraft.
Becuase the entire xpac was about Sylvanas and her redemption arc? If we have to keep Jaina everytime she does non alliance stuff, so do you have to keep Sylvanas. Lets not forget Theramore was constantly running defense for the horde. She even saved Sylvanas the first time Varian tried to end that story. She is a horde simp 100% until she got backstabbed by them, and them promoted to leader of the neutral city that still lets horde in after being backstabbed by them. (odd how that happened twice)
Yea you did. We did that entire storyline in SL. Iâm sorry you have to talk to zidormi to use it i guess. but narratively its there and alliance hlped for no reason at all. Goblins never lost their homeland. Its still being ruled by goblins. So i donât know what to tell you there besides get out of Azshara you uggo green despoilers.
Wasnât that in the pre-patch of the MoP expansion?
It was a Scenario. Cataclysm didnât have scenarios, so it was part of Mists of Pandaria laready.
Well, Gilneas wasnât part of the new alliance, it had even withdraw from the former Alliance of Lordaeron. So, no point in crying here.
But you donât even talk about the fact that the Alliance had just captured Thrall⌠seems weird to me that they would do this without even cause at the very start of Cataclysm?
You need to get the events and facts straight and in chronological oder.
I think you just ignored everything I said.
She did. Until she didnât any longer because it was retconned by chronicles.
And they werenât using back then, but now they are.
So again, thanks for confirming my point that the storytelling is alliance biased.
âgave backâ I think you still misunderstood Mists of Pandarian setup for Anduin and how he influenced Varian into becoming a better man and King, despite how bad advice he got from his advisors (including Jaina).
There are literaly hundreds of âalliance blood elves plzâ topics around.
The in game campaign reflected that lol.
So⌠Zul deserved to be imprisoned because he later would put stormwind on fire⌠that is very reasonable, except this isnât minority report and they didnât know he would set Stormwind on fire, in fact he had to set Stormwind on fire so he couldâve escaped.
You keep removing Tyrande out of the scene. It was most for Tyrande if anything, and rescue of Anduin.
I think youâre misrepresenting things.
We removed the Blight out of Lordaeron, but Undercity is gone.
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Waiting⌠There isnât any. We just show up and Bran is like WTF!. Litterally no dog in that fight.
And why is this relevant at all? We all know void elves are the laughting stock of the alliance. So glad we get weird gimmick races instead of ones with lore or actual story.
You have a race infused with arcane: Nightborn. and a race infused with not fel: magâhar! Its such a non issue iâm not sure why you brought it up. All our allied races are second class.
And when this actually matters Iâll concede it. Winning Arathi does what? Winning Darkshore does what? Visually we still have to see the horde every week and theres no payoff to being told you actually won, heres your participation trophy.
GASP! The travesty! As if we havnât had horde cinematics we had to suffer through. Like the entire seige of ogrimmar arc.
Hey donât cry to me about it. Atleast you got something in wod. We got Yrel who was locked in the closet and turned into a fanatic to give the horde more orcs.
I donât think its the same. but alright. There was still more Garrosh content then anything. We didnât have any racial leaders running around in the zone whiping their DPS meter at people.
Lets be real. Taking out Sylvanas would just make the story even less of a story. Weâre left with what? Kaelâthas and a bunch of random cameos from Draka and Alexandros? Grey nipple man hardly did anything.
Hardly means anything when horde own every zone already.
Ashenvale is horde shore to shore, nelves only have Astranaar (with really bad music for some reason)
Aszhara thrown in the trash for the horde.
Felwood completely boned
Darkshore fractured, blighted, and has a wonderful offshore sight
Winterspring is basically nothing but goblin story.
Hyjal is more than half taken over by fire elementals and demon taint. The rest is just full of twiglight cultists.
So they have moonglade and Ferlas. Yippee. What a fun night elf leveling experience. Get to see how badass the horde is in every zone while you try and pick up the pieces.
They really need to raise up the permanent barriers between the factions. Alliance players just cannot abide the idea of the Horde existing, and are super-toxic about it.
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I second this. Bring back wpvp so we can be aggro to each other if we so much as see a glimpse of the other.
(Never happen though, Blizz blew that wall up and couldnât rebuild if they hired someone to.)
Yea, but I wasnât arguing the timeline of events. Just the horde using Camp T as this be all excuse on why theyâre actually innocent is just silly. Nevermind the fact they were given information it was to be a staging ground to attack. Also nevermind the horde used it to attack the dwarves down there anywayâŚ
Ahh so it was so unprovoked, they were just innocent bystanders struggling with their own internal problems. Thats a good mark for the forsaken and horde.
And why wouldnât the alliance capture Thrall? (look i hate the two party system. I really canât defend every stupid story move blizz pulls out of their netherstorm.)
I donât think so. I think the alliance is being used as scapegoats and the punching bag. Always after the horde does something or pushes the story along. And retcons are fact, unfortunately for you (This was also changed in mop remix)
And i donât think it matters. Varian isnât king of the Night Elves, or Dwarves, or anything of that. Its just another problem with the 2 faction system really. Nightelves had to eat that massive L because they canât be arsed to have horde suffer consequences from their story.
Please re-read that. We didnât get alliance blood elves. We didnât even get high elves. We got some pulled out of thin air purple elves that are different from the purple elves we already had. It was only through massive amounts of crying did they finally turn into blue eyed elves years after the fact.
It really didnât. Every week its still horde or alliance controlled. Weâre just told it happened. We didnât even get told the Kaldorei were doing anything about it until you dug into the mission table to see they were pushing them back to crossroads. Compelling gameplay!
Frankly we donât know why they were imprisoned besides they were horde, except they obviously wernât at the time so it was probably pulled out of thin air so they could make the alliance have a reason to care about this plot like normal besides the normal nearly universal racism to all trolls.
Because she was only there for Sylvanas. Her entire character arc revolved around her. She wasnât there for anything other than to kill Sylvanas, which she couldnât even do because it was just a prank by Elune. She was there and got to act smug by kicking her into the maw. Big whoop. She failed her mission and all kaldorei players had to eat another massive L with the night warrior being waved away.
No i definatly remember piloting a giant goo monster after bending over backwards to do a bunch of quests to clean up the turbo plague. And that goo monster cleaned house. The last quest litterally took place in the courtyard with all these new undead nobodies forming a council. (for real did they mind wipe Voss? Why is she even there)
OK but they are important, because you just say that something has happened in Cataclysm while it happened in a different expansion.
Well the alliance literally did an incursion into Horde territory, that was causus belli.
So you should agree that the alliance invading the Sovereign, and not yet allied to the Horde, Zandalar, when they murdered King Rasthakan in the Battle of Dazarâalor⌠right?
Then it is your right to be wrong. I am not going to take that away from you, but that doesnât mean others will not see that youâre wrong.
Campaign, not in game event that is like dungeons (repeatable).
The Zandalari werenât part of the Horde when they were imprisoned in Stormwind.
Ok thanks for acknowledging that it was Tyrande-centric.
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Technically speaking its not horde territory. It is Tauren, Centaur, and Quillboar territory. Contested as its officially called. But how quickly the horde forgets the native inhabitants that didnât like the taste of their boot.
In essence yes. Granted this is all Humans of Stormwind doing, and not so the alliance. But this is yet another failure of the 2party system at play where blizz has to drag one group into the conflict no matter how stupid it is. And Horde did the same to Kulâtiras. In fact I think they did them even worse since theyâre literally pinning civilians to walls with spears in some of the invasions.
Not that the horde didnât have enough reason to given that KT never stopped attacking Durotar.
I just feel this is another case of the alliance being pulled into a horde story for no reason but to be the bad guys.
To each their own. They are also allowed to be wrong.
Yes I get it. But it doesnât effect the campaign at all. And visually still reinforces one sides image. Unless you look for it, you wonât see the alliance winning either of these warfronts. Both were confirmed in an interview. Nowhere else. Youâre only source of this information is wikipedia.
I never said they were. I was implying Blizz knew they were going to join so they needed an excuse to drag the alliance into it. The Zandalari, however, did invade STV and Pandaria causing casualties for both sides. So I donât see it as particularly egregious to seize one of them (Including the head of the person supposedly responsible, Zul)
Nope. SL was Sylvanas centric. Regardless of side you were there for Sylvanas. The horde were not there for Tyrande. And neither was the alliance. You could write her out and it changes nothing that isnât Ardenwald seed story.
It is Horde territory. For the alliance it is enemy territory.
Dustwallow it is contested area, which is different.
Attacking a Horde town in Barrens was the straw in the camelâs back and the goodbye for Theramore.
Varian gave the order for the alliance to push into Horde territory. So please, do not come out with lame excuses.
This is a lame excuse.
Youâre wrong, whole Barrens is Horde dominated territory.
Please stand corrected.
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No its not. Southern barrens is contested territory, even in the cataclysm de-make. Only the northern barrens is âhordeâ territory. Guess which side Camp T is. Is nuking Theramore (a neutral, horde sympathetic city) is valid counterattack, then ogrimmar really should be a smoldering crater with how many places they attacked.
Its not. It doesnât belong to the orcs. Theyâre just pushing out native inhabitants and pretending to be the righteous rulers.
Please correct yourself.
Territory: Contested
OK here is where youâre wrong: it became contested territory AFTER the alliance invaded it.
It was NOT a contested territory, ever.
It was not even known as âsouthern barrensâ before Cataclysm.
The invasion and the sack of Camp Taurajo happened in Cataclysm.
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NâZoth content literally had a trailer â In Stormwind, with King Anduin.
"Not any"is factually wrong, lmao â but yeah; clearly youâre biased.
Hence of such, Iâm not going to even bother replying to the rest since youâre just going to hold your head in the sand, deem facts as invalid or lies along with believing your own opinions as projected âtruthâ even if theyâre not.
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Iâm not wrong its contested territory. And frankly should have been in classic as well given its level range and the fact the dwarven fortress down there was operational in addition to both quillboar brambles
Horde were just spoiled with their leveling experience being able to get to 40ish in friendly territory.
Or should i say get your timeline correct, weâre talking about cataclysm afterall.