I honestly want to savor every phase… I hope they extend it a long time… This will probably be the last time we’ll ever get to do this with blizzard.
I think you should probably chill a little on the playtime so things stay fresh longer.
Is this a real question or are you being purposely obtuse?
For you. You want the rare epic wpvp raids and mountains of skeletons in the throne rooms.
But as you can see by scrolling up:
“It will mess with raiding”
“It will mess up pre-BIS gear”
And gear comparisons.
Yadayadayada
And you as well. Everyone wants their interests, their preferred content, to be at the forefront of the greater players interest for the first few months. And then they’ll probably get bored and stop playing.
You don’t want the dk’s and bg’s that killed wpvp, raiders want raids to be the main draw (which they will be on pve servers anyway).
But most people coming into classic won’t think of it that way. They want the old Vanilla, not “this patch, and this content, because balance abcd, and gear relevance xyz” that the majority of players didn’t even give a crap about. They just want to see the old game again.
So the casual player will get in and wonder “where are the bg’s?”
And they’ll be told to wait, because some people need to feel special.
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Thing is… what I want just so happens to coincide with what the original vanilla timeline was… Ultimately, blizzard is coming out with a progressive release of content that lines up with the vanilla timeline whether you enjoy that… or not
To me… it sounds like YOU have the need to feel special… you want the timeline in which this is all supposed to operate under to fit YOUR needs, and change it to what YOU think is best. Apart from what actually happened.
To me, what I described IS vanilla… All the patches… the whole experience… IS vanilla. And they are doing their best to try to recreate that experience.
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LOOOOOVEEEE this response. Hits every single note. People want to come back and play Vanilla how they remembered it. A large majority won’t be expecting a pre-BG Vanilla and will be heavily disappointed.
Think about having an EPIC leveling experience on a PvP server where both factions are constantly going at it in contested areas and then having absolutely nothing to show for it.
How would a majority not expect it when they announced they are doing phasing content in a similar fashion to how vanilla did its content schedule.
PvP didn’t come out until after Dire Maul which again they addressed… when they said PvP would come out between phase 2-6. Oh my goodness that mean at the earliest the DM patch… You know… similar to vanilla.
There has been zero indication that PvP will be out at launch = “large majority” believes this some how…
Throwing in blue pvp gear is not just not pre-raid BIS but your actual BIS through BWL to Naxx for casters at launch…
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A large majority of players are not on the forums keeping up to date with each item on the phase schedule. They simply remember WSG/AB being a part of Vanilla and learning otherwise will be a disappointment. Beyond this, many of the dedicated PvPers will be wildly disappointed by the absence of an honor system and BGs.
You keep saying this and it’s inaccurate. Piece for piece, T1 MC gear is better than the blue PvP gear for EVERY class. I already answered this but you keep repeating yourself because you’re a random alt account and don’t care. Very un-vanilla of you.
You straight do not understand caster BIS list if you think tier 1 or tier 2 is better than the two piece from PvP. Do the math.
I will do some of the basic addition.
Tier 1 Mage Shoulders -Equip: Increases spell power by 14.
Tier 1 Mage Glovess - Equip: Increases spell power by 14.
28 spell power
Tier 2
Shoulders= 21
Gloves=20
Total Spell power 41.
Mage PvP blue
Shoulder +12 spell power
Gloves +21 spell power
Set bonus 23 spell power
Total spell power is 56.
Jesus Christ and this is just for mages. Want me to do Warlocks now? or Shadow Priests?
This is just shoulders and gloves. You can also mix and match with the boots piece and max out your bonuses.
Adding it at launch doesn’t just ruin the pre-raid BIS but also your actual post-raid BIS list.
You are either lying or have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to vanilla. Either way, this misinformation has to stop.
Edit:
You know what lets do Warlocks too
Tier 1
Gloves 9 Spell Power
Shoulders 9 Spell Power
Total spell power 18
Tier 2
gloves 15
shoulders 23
total spell power 38
Blue PvP
Gloves 21
Shoulders 12
Set Piece Bonus: 23
Total 56 spell power
PvP set has 3 times the SP for warlocks compared to Tier 1 and 2 times the SP compared to tier 1 for Mages. In both cases, they are stronger than tier 2. You know when I replaced PvP blue 2 piece for mages? In Naxx… You know the last raid in vanilla.
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Sounds good.
They should also add some blue weapon rewards to R12 so that we are not entirely reliant on reputation rewards for weapons.
Im not convinced that BG’s are solely a good thing. They completely destroyed the emergent PvP gameplay of Vanilla, such as the ongoing wars between SS and SM, they create instant ques which was the first of it’s kind later followed by the same for PvE in WotLK, the BG design of AB & WSG was also hideously boring and bad, especially so for WSG, which basically don’t fit MMORPG gameplay at all. It created an issue of premades farming low geared players for honor, it created the concept of a “farmable” BG which shouldn’t ever happen for a PvP activity… the list goes on and on.
Im not sure adding those 2 BG’s will do any good for Vanilla. Without BG’s, players need to be more resourceful about how they gain honor, as they can no longer que with thier Tier 2 geared friends for ez honor, and they don’t have as much advantage to play in groups and abuse the non-existent, uncompetitive matchmaking system of Vanilla, which does not balance groups with solo players at all.
Overall, im not convinced adding WSG & AB to the game is healthy for the game in any form. I think Vanilla would be better without AB and WSG. AV is okay, since it can be farmed, and the reputation rewards of WSG & AB can be transferred to world PvP.
So I think they should add AV later on but no WSG or AB, that way the emergent PvP gameplay can remain, world PvP may still be viable, and people won’t be forced to grind the un-immersive WSG and AB that do not create a sense of an epic war between H/A for maximum honor.
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![:do_not_litter:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/do_not_litter.png?v=6" ":do_not_litter:")
Another, classic should be more like Pservers thread.
HOW ORIGINAL
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Do u even know how the honor system works? If u did U wouldn’t cap it at R11 for some time.
I’ll keep it simple since you seem hellbent on continuing to spread heavily biased information.
Tier 1 sets have 3-piece set bonuses. You’re choosing to neglect that altogether and add the 2-set bonus from PvP without even mentioning that you get a spell power set bonus at 3 pieces of T1?
Secondly, Tier 1 mage set has FAR MORE OF EVERY STAT than the PvP set. 47% more intellect to be exact.
You could have actually taken the time to add it all up and be fair about it and instead chose to be completely biased.
I’ll repeat, piece for piece T1 is better. You can swap out T1 for pieces from the PvP set as the set pieces don’t overlap on some slots and get both the 5 piece bonus from T1 and the 2 piece bonus from PvP.
Still, in a 40 man raid with 5+ mages and 2 item drops per boss, It’s very unlikely mages will have an opportunity to min-max like this early on.
Even still, do you think something like this will have ANY influence on progression? Progression in Classic won’t even be a concept and MC will be on farm well before people rank up high enough for PvP gear.
If you think warlocks use tier 2 for pve or the same with mages, then you have no clue what its like to raid for vanilla. The same with tier 1.
You clearly have limited knowledge of vanilla raiding so you need to stop spouting misinformation.
Lets go google some caster BIS lists.
forum. nostalrius. org/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10194
forum. nostalrius. org/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=34049
Oh look, the entire community agrees with me. What a shocker…
I will be waiting for your apology.
Oh look, there is more
docs. google.com /spreadsheets/d/10sJ6FVcVXVHKVmzVCLTxfEYGtDikeNuumaiX-DMAwX8/edit#gid=0
Oh more too
www.vanilla-info. com/mage
But seriously, I can’t wait for your reply.
Oh look I took a screenshot of the BIS at AQ40 for mages from the classic wow BIS list that the community has been making. WHAT IS THAT 2 PIECE BLUES DOING IN AQ40 RAID BIS LIST!?!?! It is a conspiracy!
imgur. com/Iqw69xY
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As a mage i would use 3 set bonus of pvp gear and pre raid bis, over t1 gear.
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This is absolute min/maxing. Both are using the 2-piece PvP set bonus as it is a very high value way to get spell damage.
This is an isolated case where each individual piece is worse but the value of a set bonus makes them better overall.
You are correct, this 2-piece is best in slot. The PvE gear has 3-piece set bonuses and is not as efficient per slot. A comparison between the 2-piece PvP and the alternative Enigma Boots/Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal:
PvP Set: +53 Spell Power (Set bonus included), +21 Intellect
Alternative: +62 Spell Power, +31 Intellect
The true best in slot gear is still much better, including the set bonus, but the PvP gear would be more accessible in that circumstance.
I never intended for this discussion to be THIS contentious. I’m incredibly excited about WoW Classic and I think there is a DEFINITE benefit to releasing the Honor System in phase 1.
In the future, you can use indented / preformatted text to deliver links:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/18000060722?page=1
That’s a link of my plead for Classic back in 2015. I have to say, in all of my visions of what Classic would be like, the Honor System and PvP were included. I feel that many others have the same vision.
I see that the caster 2-piece for PvP is overtuned. It can easily be fixed OR we can come to the understanding that any small increment increase in spell power will have no bearing on progression or anything else for that matter.
And Blizz may make some changes that throw all that out. Crazy, right?
I know I was right from the first post because I actually know something about caster DPS. Yet, each time you dismissed it as misinformation. It isn’t. Anyone whose raided as a caster 13 years ago could have told you that. Anyone who has used google for a minute could have told you that.
Yet, you continually said I was wrong without even researching the topic.
You even claimed I referring the epic PvP set which is a downgrade.
Now you are dismissing it as min/maxing? Look at your comments about pre-raid BIS. Look at your comments about tier pieces being superior. Tier caster pieces are trash until 3.
Seriously, no mage or lock is going to raid with majority tier 1 or tier 2 because you are losing a ton of DPS. Purple does not mean better.
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You’re wrong. Your very own BiS chart proved that. It’s simply way more accessible for every caster to get the high-value 2-piece.
First, you said Tier 1/2.
At AQ40 you have to factor that the PVP set has hit on it as well which is needed for Naxx as they have a higher chance to resist. That is why its listed as an alternative. Can you even read the guides? For MC/BWL/AQ20, its the engima/mantle. For Naxx, its the blue piece.
Christ man, do I legit have to do all the reading for you. I linked you three comprehensive mage guides and you have google.
Either way, your argument that its worse than tier 1 and tier 2 is flat wrong. Now you are trying to switch this to AQ40/Naxx?
Lets see what you wrote “Only blue gear is accessible up to Rank 11. Blue gear is worse than MC gear in PvE”
Completely wrong for mages, warlocks, and shadow priests.
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Not being snarky, just an honest question. Did you play a lot in Vanilla, and what honor rank did you get to during T1?
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