Also please stop trying to seperate the spec from the borrowed power at this point. It’s not the PTR. We have to live with both now and since a rework of tier sets is highly unlikely its just BM hunter DPS we are discussing.
I have never had anyone message me in game and I can guarantee I make more people mad.
Without logs I don’t believe it.
You ever think it might be because hunter is a more played class and warlocks have more raid utility?
Again without logs I find it hard to take seriously.
So you don’t have time to learn a second spec but you have time to gear and learn a new class? Makes sense.
It baffles me because you ignore my points.
The difference of the gain in tier gear is why BM is having issues solely on Skolex.
Like seriously I have already explained this.
I’m not separating anything.
When you have things like
BM gains a 10% bonus
MM gains 30% bonus
SV gains 30% bonus
It’s not hard to see that tier is the issues
Now you just seem like you’re being super defensive by deflecting from your argument to attack your opponent. This is funny, because I was actually agreeing with your stance that BM isn’t as bad off as many insist. You just don’t want to be wrong about anything.
I will address one of your questions though…
I didn’t say that. I said I have limited time, so I can use it to learn a new spec that I don’t enjoy or I can play another class/spec that I do enjoy. I’ve also played Warlock off and on for more than a decade, so it wasn’t exactly a huge leap. Nice try though.
He is just trollin’ folks. Nothing to see here again.
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I did t deflect anything. I just said people can say anything and logs are a way to prove that.
It was an honest question because it didn’t make sense to me. Thanks for clarifying for me.
I’m not trolling though. Thanks for showing that you can’t refute facts and showing you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
This isn’t a wishlist for what we need to change in 10.0. Right now, it doesn’t matter if is gear, legendaries, talents, or covenants that are the issue. All of them combine to give a final DPS number we have to live with. You keep saying its “tier, tier tier” as an explanation for poor performance , but since its unlikely the tier set bonuses for the classes will be reworked then the only thing left is changing the damage modifiers. So stop trying to say BM is fine, just the tier sets are bad. Also, no one is ignoring your points, you are just changing them at will. Here is what you have done so far in a relatively short period of time: Statement: BM dps is severely underperforming in Mythic raids, here look at the logs. Your response: no its not, you don’t understand the damage profile of BM. It’s only good on single target. Statement: Here is the logs for Mythic Skollex. See BM is still severely underperforming. Your response: No its not. You don’t understand the logs. All the good players are playing other specs now. Statement: okay fine, here is the log for Heroic Skollex. The sample size is large enough now to eliminate any bias. See, BM hunters dps is severely underperforming. Your response: “You should focus on maintaining frenzy stacks so your dps improves.”.
Btw you haven’t given a single fact in any forum post you have done. Not one. You have deflected, argued, attacked, changed direction, dodged, ducked, dived, and dodged. But no where in all that mess have you said, here look at these numbers and you’ll see that BM is performing as expected. Not one time.
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That’s because tier is the issue. I don’t understand what’s so hard for you to understand
Pre tier BM was fine.
After tier BM is performing poorly.
Nothing changed but the tier. Hard concept is hard.
I never said BM is fine. Can you even read
You can’t even comprehend the arguments. That much is clear. You’re ignoring the facts so yes. I told you to work on keeping frenzy up since you mostly green parse with an uptime of frenzy at 57%
I miss Easyguides they had good ideas and knowledge.
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Yes I have. Here I’ll link it for you a fourth time that is a complete breakdown explaining why you don’t have a clue.
The issue with looking at 95th percentile mythic logs is that at that level of play people will be playing the optimal specs. MM/Survival are just better due to their damage profiles because of the fights designs so right off the bat you are going to get a smaller sample size.
Shadowlands DPS Rankings in Season 3 Week 5 - Sepulcher of the First Ones
Today we will take a look at the DPS balance in Sepulcher of the First Ones during the week of March 29th of Shadowlands Season 3. For this analysis we will use data provided by Warcraft Logs Heroic Sepulcher of the First Ones statistics. Note that…
These types of links are used constantly to say XYZ class is bad please buff.
If you read the first paragraph is actually states this disclaimer
- Specs that are considered underpowered are generally played less and tend to appear weaker than they actually are.
- This happens as many performance-oriented players will tend to play the strongest spec or class, increasing even further the gap between top and bottom specs.
- Position of specs for the 95th percentile might be skewed by alternative strategies and parse funneling. For that, we’re including the chart showing the result for all percentiles to paint a better picture for all specs.
So right off the bat those type of links arent a good sample because at the top level of play players are going to play the best performing spec.
Then you have to factor in damage profiles. In mythic raiding class/specs that have on demand burst fare better because of fight design.
When you look at the fights, BMs damage profile only good for 2 fights. Skolex and Halondrus because BM is a single target spec. 9 out of 11 fights have priority adds which benefit MM and Survival more because they are very strong on multi target fights.
SO here is where the real issues BM is facing right now.
- BMs set bonuses are very bad compared to the buffs that MM and Survival got from their set bonuses.
- BM is a single target spec in a raid tier with only 2/11 fights that favor its damage profile.
- BM lacks any on demand burst. The only on demand burst you get with BM is with Wild Spirits which Unity is worthless on some fights like Xymoc for example.
BM has a lot of little issues that arent going to be changed in a .5 type patch because they arent going to redesign a ST spec to do a lot of aoe/cleave to the MM/Survival levels.
BM does need some tuning, it needs the tier fixed so its not awful
Beast Cleave probably needs to be uncapped depending on how tuning was because it cant be stronger than MM or Survival cleave/aoe damage.
Outside of that it just wont be amazing this tier because of the fight designs dont favor it.
The issue I have with Doc and Bulletproof is that they are screaming that BM is unplayable and then linking mythic 95th percentile logs as their evidence. BM is playable in ALL content, however once you start getting into the higher levels of play like CE Mythic guilds/Top key pushers its going to fall behind because of the issues I mentioned above
Its better to take a strong player on a weak class than for that player to swap specs to a spec they arent familiar with thats OP
Oh lord, please give me the strength…If you don’t understand statistics and the concept of significance you wont get this next part at all, but i can hope can’t I. So starting from the beginning: why people use the 95% and not the 100% to understand maximal output. The answer here is fairly straightforward and deals with the concept of outliers. In the case of parses, these outliers would be people who intentionally alter the system to try an gain an advantage. The easiest way to do this is by changing the mechanics of a fight or intentiaonally inflating ones power with things like multiple PIs or BoPs. While these outliers represent the maximal state of output for a spec, they are achieved under abnormal game conditions and are therefore unreliable. By setting the cutoff at 95%, we now have a more representative value achievable by everyone under normal game conditions. How confidant (accurate) is the 95th percentile? This answer to this is based on sample size. In short, as sample size increases, variability decreases. Therefore when you look at warcraft logs to make sense of damage output, you start off by looking at the number of parses, both in total and for your spec. So if there is 30K total parses, but the spec you interested in has only 100 then there is a good chance that the deviation between your spec and the total will obscure any significance in the data. However, if there is 30K parses and yours account for 10% of them, the likelihood of deviation is dramatically reduced because your sample size is large enough to eliminate deviation. Now look at Mythic parses of Skollex over the course of 1 week alone. The sample size of BM is 2858. This makes it the 7th most represented spec on this fight. With this sample size, there is a high degree of confidence that BMs damage output is consistent with the maximal outputi of the spec. Conversely, affliction warlock has only 30 parses at this level giving it a sample size so low to make any conclusions about DPS output suspect. That is the point of the disclaimer in Wowhead, not some misquided invalidation of the data repesented in the graph. Why should you care about maximal DPS of a spec; why not just focus on average dps overall? To determine the 50% mark for each spec, just set the slider to all percentiles. Now at this level, boss kills include all performers. Those that do well, those that do poorly and those who just die on the pull. So we have the full gambit but in every case the boss died at the end. Now if hover over a spec you see 5 numbers corresponding to different percentiles but we are concerned with the median. In this case, BM’s median DPS is 11372 which is also the median DPS of all specs. The top median DPS is still elemental shaman at 12995. Now this is undoubtedly where Snozzola will pipe up and say “see BM is not that bad” because its performing in the middle of the pack and he would be right if the raid consisted of this single fight. We would be in good shape. i could live with middle of the pack. But alas this is what is called a snapshot, one of 11. If we look at another snapshot, one with most specs being well represented but with a different fight profile such as Mythic Vigilant, well the state of average gets downright depressing. In this snapshot, BM’s median DPS is 11120 while the median dps of all specs is 12900. This is a whopping 13.7% off the pace. Now if we get a little more nuanced and compare it to elemental shaman who topped the meter on Skollex, we see a difference of 17.3%. in other words, elenenatal shaman is great at single target and very good at multitarget. In fact if we look at all the specs in general, with the exception of windwalker monks, those that are good in single target also appear to be good in multitarget scenarios which goes a long way to invalidating that a spec has a niche, but I digress. Apologies. So back to the point, different snapshots have different outcomes and its hard to see the full picture. Complicating matters, as Snozzle pointed out rightly, is if you look at all of Mythic SotFO the representation of classes goes down below significance levels which makes any conclusions suspect. But thankfully we can achieve a reasonable approximation of the Mythic outcome by looking at the heroic level. At this level, all the fights are well represented. So on heroic, all bosses, all percentiles, 1 week average, we see BM is fourth from the bottom (note because of the variiation between fights DPS is reported as a relative percentage) . At this level we are 6.8% from the median and 11.6% from the top. So whether the BM spec is severely underperforming or performing as expected depends on your definitions of performance.
You should ask for some common sense.
The issues affecting BM affect it no matter the parse percentage. It doesn’t matter if it’s a 50% or 95% parse. The damage profile doesn’t change. The weak tier doesn’t change.
Like seriously how can you not comprehend this?
This disclaimer is literally in every wowhead post about representation and rankings.
Every post you make just proves more and more you don’t understand how logs work. I have never seen someone so confident yet be wrong at this magnitude.
You seriously would gain more dps learning how to play BM properly than any buff BM would get.
All you had to do is say you didn’t understand a thing I wrote. First: the statement “Specs that are underpowered are generally played less” would be applicable to affliction lock, but not BM hunter. The number of parses don’t bear that out. Second, “many performance-oriented players will tend to play the strongest spec or class” absolutely true but aslo ASSUMES the large number of players still playing BM are incapable of doing so optimally. Third, " * Position of specs for the 95th percentile might be skewed by alternative strategies and parse funneling. For that, we’re including the chart showing the result for all percentiles to paint a better picture for all specs." which is exactly what i was talking about with outliers. At the 95% and below, outliers are generally not the case but even if it was you could look 90% or even 80% and see the same relationship between BM and the rest of specs.
I understand it perfectly. It’s just not applicable.
You’re the one who again keeps pushing logs that you can’t comprehend.
Logs don’t change damage profiles so your argument will continue to be invalid.
Do you enjoy being a troll?
Okay I am going to try something completely different. Maybe this will work, maybe not. Snozz, show us anything from Blizzard Entertainment on BM hunters that specifically states what BM’s damage profile actually is. Anything at all and we will start from there.
Do you enjoy being clueless? I’m not trolling.
The damage profile comes from how the spec is designed. I think you don’t even understand what a damage profile is.