They are weak , I’ve played mine and came up with these facts just like any other ret with a brain and vanguards dropping cr is also proof of that wether you like it or not dude is running ret/war in 2S ffs 
. You don’t pvp stay in ur place and mind your business lil weirdo, you wanna be a troll so bad. This the last reply you get from me.
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Ret wasn’t nerfed in pve.
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here the logic
there are no mainstream, popuar ret players that have large streaming followings, nor are their any AWC invitees that play ret right now.
You coupe that with streamers who cry that their warrior class isnt at the top of the class list
AKA Bajheera
and you get classes other than warrior nerfed while getting warrior buffed
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- Final Reckoning and Decree nerfs went through
- Final Verdict is now disarmable - undocumented change
- Tier sets nerfed
- Lawbringer was changed to 5% (5% nerf from 10%, not the 2% nerf as claimed in the notes) - undocumented change
- Small wings pvp talent changed from 50 stacks to 100, massive time requirement change to get the proc.
Adding some damage into Exorcism and TV doesn’t make up for the nerf to our burst, and more importantly the sustain damage loss from our PvP talents. Small wings gave us more moments outside of 2 min wings to connect and actually apply pressure. Lawbringer was one of the few things that allowed us to still keep some pressure from ranged via judgments, something we need when getting kited.
Decree also seems like it was nerfed more then advertised. A 33% nerf should of been adjusting those high end 250k crits to around 165k. But I haven’t been able to get anything higher then 120k, with 80-100k being the average crit. It actually feels like the ability was changed to 1/3 damage instead of 2/3, and you gotta remember that just like Final Reckoning this ability was also helping our cleave damage and not just used to setup 1-shots.
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I get all that. Really do. Did that equate to a 30% overall damage loss though?
In the end, players being realistic is important. I did quite a few games last night and rets were still pumping. Ended a few matches with the ret still doubling the damage of everyone else. Granted, how meaningful that damage was is 100% up for debate. Regardless though, with setup, they are still getting kills in short windows.
The BIGGER issue as far as I could see is just the prevalence of priests overall. Despite shadows nerf, I still see a lot of them and now there are way more disc priests. Improved MD badly need to be looked at and just ret defensives overall. Ret damage is still pulling CDs instantly.
From my personal experience: 40k dps down to 25-28k on matchups where I’m performing well. Yes I would say we lost 25-30% overall damage easily.
They pushed more damage into single target rather then allowing us to cleave well. Sure you can still pull cooldowns from a single target during wings, but any healers proficient at sustain healing 1 target instantly counters that (rdruid, mw are good examples) play style. The spread pressure helped us to be more versatile and singularly focused.
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This has been roughly what I am seeing as well. To be 100% transparent, I’ve only played 12 total rounds though.
My Internet has been acting strange had two random loss of service two nights in a row, want to go one evening where I don’t lose service for several minutes or 30 minutes+ before I Q again. Not interested in losing a ton of rating due to ISP failing me.
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I was about to ask if any1 else was under the impression that Decree has been hit harder than advertised, on top of the other unlisted changes the “tuning” went a bit too far. Exo is still awkward to use bc it doesn’t generate hopo and their push for consecration is just… odd.
At least they’ve mentioned they’re evaluating the spec, hopefully actual changes happen.
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i need charge lol
Not every cheap labor is slave labor. If you googled you would be surprised. “Slave labor” are terms blue collar and lower educated Americans use to attach a negative connotation to their competitions oversea. They are afraid their easy jobs will go there next. Not all jobs will go there.
You didn’t answer my question. Where are you getting QA for $3k a year?
Yea evaluating how they can finish it off 
QFT!!!1
/10char
What the spec needs is actual changes, not just tuning numbers. I’ll keep saying this a million times, as long as the spec is just legion ret with an unbound freedom bandaid it’ll always end up in the 1shot gimmick spot.
“lOl ReT wAR iS GoOd” is not a valid argument against this.
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I mean it’s been one of the excuses several times for WW and walking dead.
Outside the wing of dk ww was DoA
Different toolkits, ww has better tools to control a match while ret is limited by this archaic “support” role notion, the one shots will continue to happen as long as real changes aren’t made.
And yet without walking dead in several seasons ww was useless.
So what you’re saying is you just want to be a warrior?
Cata ret was not a warrior /shrug
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Yeah, they were a support dps. Insane burst from them lasted all but half a season after their little holy knight pet got nerfed.
They weren’t as strong of support with the wog cd, but by the end all that worked itself out.
I think you confuse existing only to be an accessory to others with having support tools.