High Elf POSITIVITY Thread 😎

[Grabbag-barthilas]

I kind of love the statement that the devs should ‘be honest’, implying that they’re somehow being dishonest for not adding something they never said they’d add.

[Felgolas-norgannon]

High elves? Like, nightborns high on ancient mana?

[Sibbja-sargeras]

@Avarie-farstriders

Jaina was a member of a ruling council, not the entirety of the council.

This implication, that she was merely one of six equal members, isn’t accurate – she was, explicitly, promoted to be the leader of the Council.

(And, ironically, the one who most fervently argued in her favor was Aethas Sunreaver).

@Somand-proudmoore

This is upholding tradition, not law.

They promoted tradition by opposing the Blood Elves being admitted into the Kirin Tor; they enforced law by carrying out orders given by the highest authority in the city.

@Somand-proudmoore

I’m not arguing the legality of the Purge, so this doesn’t matter to the point I made. I was responding to a point about their foundation, not the Purge.

A fair point.

@Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord

i actually agree with your interpretations. the purge was largely an attack on civilians and the grey area stuff isnt even performed by the SC. vereesa gives the morally ambiguous tasks to the player. ‘feeding people to sharks’ is really the only possible sole act of murderous intent a SC member can be seen performing. everything else is fighting back against civilians resisting and the shark scene is magnified because its the only example. except as you said earlier it appears to be an interrogation and the dangling is an intimidation act, the sunreaver doesnt even get dropped until a horde player surprises him by attacking. they were given an order by the leader of the kirin tor and carried it out. its also worth noting vereesa was still blaming magister types for the mana bomb that killed her husband, but that anger switched to garrosh in the war crimes novel

I don’t think of the Silver Covenant as being in the right, morally, but there’s no doubt about the legality of their actions – Jaina, as well as the other four members of the Council of Six, were entirely aware of what was happening throughout their city and not one of them raised concerns over laws being broken.

@Snowsong-fizzcrank

The only “questionable” occurrences from the SC happened in the sewers, unless you can list other cruel instances that would parallel feeding Sunreavers to sharks, or drowning them in the water.

The majority of all deaths occur topside, and there are only two instances (one of which is inadvertent) in the sewers which could qualify as “cruel”.

@Midare-area-52

You really got no shame to even contradict yourself in such a short sentence.

It’s not a contradiction.

They Kirin Tor invited the Sunreavers to Dalaran; the Kirin Tor also uninvited the Sunreavers from Dalaran. Just the reality, I’m sorry this offends your delicate sensibilities.

@Valarían-hydraxis

I keep seeing moving the goal post comments actuations or not being satisfied no matter what they do being thrown around, but really they never delivered what was asked for

That’s because a few of these posters are incapable of staying on point (you’ll notice an egregious amount of ad hominem, without anything substantive to add to the discussion at all).

@Grabbag-barthilas

Christ, are we still doing this? Jaina and the Silver Covenant are war criminals no better than Sylvanas or Garrosh, move on.

Citation Needed.

@Midare-area-52

“Also, let me tell you in 100 different ways why what they did is totally justifed and not that bad, really.”

I’ve never argued this, ever. Again, you’re arguing with a boogeyman.

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

@Sibbja-sargeras

They Kirin Tor invited the Sunreavers to Dalaran; the Kirin Tor also uninvited the Sunreavers from Dalaran. Just the reality, I’m sorry this offends your delicate sensibilities.

@Sibbja-sargeras

I’ve never argued this, ever. Again, you’re arguing with a boogeyman.

Now, doing it on the same post…

@Sibbja-sargeras

I don’t think of the Silver Covenant as being in the right, morally

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Valarían-hydraxis]

@Sibbja-sargeras

That’s because a few of these posters are incapable of staying on point (you’ll notice an egregious amount of ad hominem, without anything substantive to add to the discussion at all).

Agreed!
That’s why I just use the ignore feature and stay on topic, most here to troll or go off topic, to get peeps mad and get thread closed.

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

@Valarían-hydraxis

That’s why I just use the ignore feature and stay on topic, most here to troll or go off topic, to get peeps mad and get thread closed.

Here’s a comment on topic:

You got two options for them already. Stop focusing so much on a tooltip.

[Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood (Tarrok)]

@Sibbja-sargeras

leader of the Council.

which says that she’s still part of a council and not a unitary ruler. She may have some additional powers and responsibilities, but the ruling body is not her but the council as a whole. The problem here is that she got away with what she did, possibly because she took out one of her fellow council members.

[Snowsong-fizzcrank]

@Sibbja-sargeras

The majority of all deaths occur topside, and there are only two instances (one of which is inadvertent) in the sewers which could qualify as “cruel”.

Not really, subduing unruly Sunreavers topside is not “cruel” and nowhere near as controversial as feeding them to sharks, or drowning them in the sewers, the fact that you’re actually trying to correlate those two things is extremely telling.

It’s clear the “nature” of these killings was far more cruel and unusual in the sewers because like much of the crime in Dalaran, it’s much easier to carry out in secrecy than topside. If you’re honestly trying to pretend otherwise you either didn’t pay attention to the nature of the sewers in dalaran, or you’re intentionally ignoring it to suit your agenda.

I was willing to give you a chance to prove that you were being sensible, but the more stretching, and back bending you do to justify clearly cruel and unusual acts of murder in the sewers paints a pretty clear picture of your position here.

[Zurogrusel-darrowmere]

@Somand-proudmoore

Aichmophobia exists to mean fear of pointy things, but he loves axes, so it doesn’t work here.

Have you ever seen Orgrimmar?

Do you think an orc would ever be afraid of pointy things?

@Somand-proudmoore

I want Alleria’s hood and hair combo as a head mog.

I just want helmets and hair in general.

I couldn’t wear wolf pelts without destroying my braids before SLs, it took the orc level down.

[Grabbag-barthilas]

@Sibbja-sargeras

Citation Needed.

Ethnic cleansing, collective punishment of innocent people, attempted genocide on a larger scale than Teldrassil.

[Zurogrusel-darrowmere]

@Grabbag-barthilas

attempted genocide on a larger scale than Teldrassil.

This is referring to Jaina specifically, yes?

[Grabbag-barthilas]

Yes, it is.

[Avarie-farstriders]

And as leader she was outvoted by the council when they were allowed back in. If she could not override it then, was she really supposed to have the power to act on her own? I mean if her being the leader couldn’t override what the rest of the council wanted, should she have been allowed to decide on her own to massacre civilians?

[Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord]

could be some form of martial law was invoked and there was not enough time to gather and vote, that the sunreaver community was an immediate threat

[Avarie-farstriders]

I don’t think the civilians trying to flee for their lives were that much of a threat.

[Grabbag-barthilas]

Under no kind of martial law is ethnic violence defensible. Much less because they were innocent of what they were accused of. But even if they hadn’t been, it’s no excuse.

[Murgatroyd-lightbringer (Murgatroyd)]

Of course the Sunreaver community wasn’t a threat, as the facts bore out. Jaina acted without those facts, without calling a vote of the Council (that is written anywhere in the lore - some will no doubt suppose there was one), and her orders were completely over the top.

We all saw just how much reverence for the democratic governance of the Council she had when she poutcrashed out of Dalaran after they voted to allow the Sunreavers back in. Her way or the highway, and it’s a good thing for Dalaran she chose the Highway. Now it’s truly the neutral gathering place, as home of the decidedly neutral Kirin Tor, it always should have been.

Clearly Dad(gar) knows best.

[Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord]

@Murgatroyd-lightbringer

Of course the Sunreaver community wasn’t a threat, as the facts bore out. Jaina acted without those facts, without calling a vote of the Council

yea ofc. im just trying to come up with a reason jaina can bypass a council vote. declaring they pose a significant and immediate threat to the city is the only thing i can think of to forcibly remove them and use deadly force if they resist before anyone can consider the repercussions

im not going to pretend to know dalarans laws but i would bet theres something there that allows the leader of the kirin tor to act without requiring a council vote in an emergency. jaina just abused her power and twisted the kirin tor to suit her personal needs as rhonins ghost said to her in thros during bfa

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

@Murgatroyd-lightbringer

We all saw just how much reverence for the democratic governance of the Council she had when she poutcrashed out of Dalaran after they voted to allow the Sunreavers back in.

Dalaran maintaining that ancient tradition of remaining Alliance-aligned.

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

@Sibbja-sargeras

The entire discussion spawned from Reno’s assertion that the Silver Covenant’s entire purpose for existence it to maim and/or murder Blood Elves; I countered that their purpose is to uphold the laws and traditions of Dalaran

This whole discussion is because you think dangling people over pools of Sharks is “Laws and Traditions of Dalaran.”