High Elf POSITIVITY Thread 😎

Community General Discussion
9285

I don’t see that as fair being that even with my own metric of not counting a race twice just because they have a slightly different copy as an Allied Race, the Horde ties us in Paladin Races and outright trumps us in Shaman races.

Just because a dwarf is Dark Iron and a Draenei is Lightfored, does not make them a different race, we already have Draenei capable of being Paladin and Dwarfs capable of being Paladin.

What we don’t have is races outside of Human, Dwarf and Draenei that can be the Alliance’s iconic class, but the Horde has a mountain of differen’t races to choose from to be their iconic class in Shaman, EVEN if we don’t count their ARs aside from Vulpera who are not furry Goblins.

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9286

I get where you’re coming from, but from the game’s mechanical and interface perspective, allied races… even derivative ones… are considered their own race. That’s why I feel they need to be counted as such if you’re tallying up how many races on each faction have access to what classes.

Alliance have 5 races that can be Paladins and 5 that can be Shaman. Not counting some of them just because they are derivatives of other races isn’t fair imo.

The Horde have 3 races that can be Paladins and 8 races that can be Shaman. Not counting some of them just because they are derivatives of other races isn’t fair either imo.

It’s feels like a very… sleazy-car-dealer… way to make the numbers work in your favor. As far as the game is concerned, allied races are unique individual races, and what classes they have count specifically for them. It’s especially unfair for you to count some allied races but not others (Zandalari).

As absurd as the notion of something like this ever being relevant in a court case might be, I’m willing to bet a judge would rule against you if you tried to present your numbers like this.

9287

Guess we just disagree, i can’t in good conscious consider some Allied Races as separate races, especially when most are built on the foundation of having an existing parent race to begin with, it feels like a lazy way for you to let Blizzard slide in lackluster spreading out of classes on a faction.

The only “individual” allied race i give a pass for is Vulpera who are the only AR who are not actively derived from another in any way that isn’t a skin over an existing skeleton, which has been done before. They are their own separate race and should count as such in universe.

Gameplay wise, i’m playing a different colored Dwarf or Draenei when playing them as paladin if i choose their AR counterparts, nothing aesthetically has changed, especially the rigs they’re all bound to.

To count them towards the list even with their nature as a modified, already existing rig, hits as lazy when you consider so many Horde races can have their own individual taste in Shaman but for Alliance, we’re either Human, Shorter human, or bulky goat, for Paladin, and that’s fair because by nature of gameplay ARs are seperate races?

I don’t see it.

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9288

If you’re not going to count all allied races, then don’t count any of them.

If we’re only talking core races then:

Alliance have 3 Paladins and 3 Shaman and Horde have 2 Paladins and 4 Shaman

If you’d specified core races only, I wouldn’t be arguing with you. But you can’t in good conscience count some allied races and not others just because it makes the numbers work out in your favor.

It’s flat out dishonest.

9289

That’s flat-out unfair, Vulpera aren’t a separate race because by the nature of this argument they’re an AR?

If they were in anyway a race derivative of Goblin, i would agree, they are not, they are a completely new race.

We are talking races, period.

Mixed and matched how they will based on what race they are derived from, it just so happens that most ARs are a branch of a core race and for this argument don’t count.

Vulpera do because they are in-universe a new race and Zandalari count because they are obviously derived off the original troll, just like Kul Tiran also count being derived off of human.

What’s dishonest is you counting Kul Tiran for Alliance Shaman and not counting Zandalari as Horde Paladin.

I thought you were on about core races.

If we are then Alliance has 2 Shaman and 3 Paladin races to the Hordes 2 Paladin and 4 Shaman races, even in your own argument, the Alliance comes out behind in class distribution.

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9290

What’s dishonest is you counting Kul Tiran for Alliance Shaman and not counting Zandalari as Horde Paladin.

Uh what? I didn’t count Kul Tiran for Alliance shaman when only counting core races. And I did count Zandalari for Horde paladin when including allied races.

Counting only core races:

Alliance Paladins: 3 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei
Alliance Shaman: 3 - Dwarf, Draenei, Pandaren
Horde Paladins: 2 - Tauren, Blood Elf
Horde Shaman: 4 - Orc, Troll, Goblin, Pandaren

Same numbers I mentioned before:

Alliance have 3 Paladins and 3 Shaman
Horde have 2 Paladins and 4 Shaman

Counting both core and allied races:

Alliance Paladins: 5 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei, Dark Iron, Lightforged
Alliance Shaman: 5 - Dwarf, Draenei, Pandaren, Dark Iron, Kul Tiran
Horde Paladins: 3 - Tauren, Blood Elf, Zandalari
Horde Shaman: 8 - Orc, Troll, Goblin, Pandaren, High Mountain, Mag’har, Zandalari, Vulpera

Same numbers I mentioned before:

Alliance have 5 Paladins and 5 Shaman.
Horde have 3 Paladins and 8 Shaman.

9291

Is not counted in this argument because by their nature they are not an addition of either Faction.

Even removing Pandaren and adding Tauren you forgot, the Horde gets a hardy distribution of their iconic class and that’s with you ignoring Vulpera as a valid and separate race.

9292

That seems like a rather arbitrary disqualification, but let’s humor you and go with it:

Counting only core races but excluding Pandaren:

Alliance Paladins: 3 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei
Alliance Shaman: 2 - Dwarf, Draenei
Horde Paladins: 2 - Tauren, Blood Elf
Horde Shaman: 3 - Orc, Troll, Goblin

Counting both core and allied races but excluding Pandaren:

Alliance Paladins: 5 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei, Dark Iron, Lightforged
Alliance Shaman: 4 - Dwarf, Draenei, Dark Iron, Kul Tiran
Horde Paladins: 3 - Tauren, Blood Elf, Zandalari
Horde Shaman: 7 - Orc, Troll, Goblin, High Mountain, Mag’har, Zandalari, Vulpera

I’m not arguing against the point that Horde get a “hardy” number of Shaman. I am only arguing against the numbers you put forward when you first brought up the topic because you counted allied races in some cases and not in others and I feel that’s unfair.

9293

Why are you ignoring Tauren for shaman.

9294

Gah you’re right! I totally missed tauren shaman! That’s completely on me! Not sure how I missed that!

9295

So to correct my numbers:

Counting only core races but excluding Pandaren:

Alliance Paladins: 3 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei
Alliance Shaman: 2 - Dwarf, Draenei
Horde Paladins: 2 - Tauren, Blood Elf
Horde Shaman: 4 - Orc, Troll, Goblin, Tauren

In the case of core races (excluding Pandaren) the Alliance should get another core race Paladin for parity.

Counting both core and allied races but excluding Pandaren:

Alliance Paladins: 5 - Human, Dwarf, Draenei, Dark Iron, Lightforged
Alliance Shaman: 4 - Dwarf, Draenei, Dark Iron, Kul Tiran
Horde Paladins: 3 - Tauren, Blood Elf, Zandalari
Horde Shaman: 8 - Orc, Troll, Tauren, Goblin, High Mountain, Mag’har, Zandalari, Vulpera

In the case of core and allied races (excluding Pandaren) the Alliance should get 2 more Paladins of either core or allied races for parity. We can’t give Alliance 3 Paladins because they have 4 Shaman vs the Horde’s 3 Paladins.

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9296

It is in the way they’re spread out, being that Zandalari are derived of a core race in troll but have a class that they do not, in paladin, Vulpera being the same but backwards in having the goblin rig but not being derived from Goblins in-game, much like the Mogu share the draenei rig but are not derived in anyway from Draenei.

That’s why i said “most” allied races don’t count, because most hit the “derivative of a core race that has a similar class (Dark Iron and Lightforged).”

With Kul Tiran, Zandalari, being a branch of a core race that have a different class and Vulpera being even farther out being a new race that just shares a rig.

That’s what i do want, 2 more Paladin races for the Alliance that aren’t just another flavor of Human, Dwarf or Draenei.

Night elf and Void Elf being the perfection candidates for as such, less so Void Elves because of how messy that starts to get without solid lore confirmation on what High Elves are doing with that scenario.

9297

You really need to count all races (core and allied) as their own races to make your point properly imo.

You actually DO have a point! But your presentation (and my own mistake of missing Tauren Shaman) led us down this rabbit hole.

But the conclusion seems to be:

In the case of core and allied races (excluding Pandaren) the Alliance should get 2 more Paladins of either core or allied races for parity. We can’t give Alliance 3 Paladins because they have 4 Shaman vs the Horde’s 3 Paladins.

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9298

I’m not trying to hit Shaman numbers on the Horde with Alliance Paladins or anything, i just wanna hit distribution that isn’t aesthetically similar to each other, the way Horde has with Shaman.

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9299

I propose Night and Void elf Paladins OR Night elf and WORGEN Paladins!

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9300

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9301

THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING AHHHH <3333 SOMAND you are a legend!!! Either one is perfectly fine with me tbh

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9302

Yep. Worgen Paladins are in Hearthstone, and Night Elf Paladins are literally in game, so I see no reason not to make them playable.

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9303

Worgen Paladins are in Hearthstone?

If we ever get them ingame i hope they’d make the Black Knights of Gilneas their official order. As well as actual Black Knight armor for transmog.

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9304

If Night Elves got dark themed Paladins that use the power of the Night Warrior rather than the Light, that might (and I stress might) set a precedent to allow for Void Elves to also get a similarly dark themed Paladin. The same theme and the fact that Elune is involved might also justify giving Worgen a similar Paladin as well.

With that said, while I have no personal objections to the concept, I’d be very very surprised if Blizzard ever decided to do this. But hey, I was completely blindsided by the new Void Elf skins coming in 2 weeks! So ya never know what can happen!

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