but the stormwind humans didnt persecute them in dalaran. the very people who did, are now their allies.
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The Stormwind humans are just the image of the current Alliance is all. The ones that actively worked against helping the BEs in their time of need, in their own sovereign lands.
what? i dont get it. listen, dont panic, the devs will never make blood elves into loser alliance faction members. we alliance are a bunch of poster children of george mcfly.
You blame all trolls for ancestral grudges against one troll tribe.
You fail to realize the Sinâdorei go through a traumatic cultural and societal reset and they enter the Horde knowing itâs not the Horde of old.
Somehow itâs lost on people that the Forsaken are also part of the Horde the BEs are actively choosing to acknowledge is a new Horde, and you and other continue to cite that it makes no sense that the forsaken are forgiven by the Blood Elves.
Only it makes perfect sense given their fallen hero leads them, and oh Forsaken help comes to you know⊠help them retake their homes as opposed to hurting their efforts
Garithos is the reason BEs start neutral in BC. Ignoring it because while you attribute all trolls should be hated by the BEs despite only one tribe being at fault, and despite the BEs societal reset, Iâll ignore that point because idc about them being neutral in BC. The Alliance of Stormwind or what ever itâs called, is the one that actively ruins their own chances at winning BEs over, is the point.
The story being better fitted to BEs personality on Horde, is the point.
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i dont blame all trolls. i assumed, based on the fact all alliance members are blamed for garithos, is indicative of how the devs want people to view the blood elves or just wow races in general. everybody is a cad because they dont just blame races but entire factions of races. the horde is blamed for teldrassil. the alliance is blamed for garithos. etc.
doesnt make sense that occasionally belfs alone, emerge from that mindset, just long enough to make alliances with former non alliance enemies, then slam the door shut the minute their, up till garithosâ, alliance friends, are the subject.
its not consistent.
Nope, we deffinitely DONÂŽT agree. Maybe the druids -if there are any, cause so far this is on limbo canonwise- that went to Teldrassil should be punished, but why the hell the rest of the druids should atutomathically throw in the towel and value Malfurion over their own families and people? ThatÂŽs messed up.
If anything Teldrassil would be a VERY good motivator for them to pick up a more influential position in the HordeÂŽs government (as if âkk, if we donÂŽt take charge this morons will end up killing us all!!â).
See the consequences off having Horde members chained to Alliance / Alliance flavored organizations? Suddenly people assumes they absolutely would sacrifice their families in favor of random Nelf/Human/etc. And that in itself IS -pardon me- retarded.
But this is NOT the fault of the nonexistant characters, it IS the fault of the writers and the devs that decided to pospone this VERY relevant detail in favour of moar cartoonish villain batting. Brennadam was supposedly designed to portray Quillboar instead of Horde NPCs but ofc the morons in charge of the game thought throwing more dirty water on top of the Horde portrayal was A-OK simply because Horde players donÂŽt directly interact with the event (idiots, as if we didnÂŽt end up having to defend ourselves regardless from the random MHP and FNE out there in the forums for things absolutely outside of our control).
To blame and hide between this paradigm (buut, buut!! the Hurde was compliant and EVUL cause they didnŽt rebel ASAP!!") to demand ridiculous stuff that WILL inevitably annoy Horde players and promote a toxic environment IS bad faith. We Horde players got as punished as you people; worse if we take into account we lost the main characters and with a Blizzard obssessed with telling their narrative by proxy of main NPCS, we got pushed further away from getting sensible storylines for ourselves in the future. Look at Shadowlands for example. While you people get the Tyrande storyline we get⊠ThrallŽs mommy issues with Draka for 0.5 secs?
Sure thing dear⊠just like Tauren pallies are Sun druids but even in the lore of Legion they acted like Human paladins screaming about the light left and right.
LetÂŽs all not pretend homogenization is the de facto M.O. used by the devs anytime they have to invest in class narratives.
It surely came up like that after I said âcareful, devs refused to portray the globalized sentiment from druids and shamans regarding Teldrassilâ. Seemed like an extra dig to imply shamans AS A WHOLE were A-OK with the burning.
Maybe because they have friends and family that neither went to Teldrassil to make a Nelf BBQ? And leaving them to their fate under the hands of a psycho Warchief is disgustingly selfish?
You aware at the time ALL (as in Azshara and the Highborne + Malfurion and the current Nelves) WERE THE SAME DAMNED RACE AND THE SAME DAMNED SOCIO POLITICAL STATE?
Sorry buty as long as you keep the argument âevery individual from faction x is faulty over the sins of their leader at the time but ofc this not apply to my fav raceâ youÂŽre nothing but screaming double standards and hurting your own argument.
How many times do we have to say THIS has never ever been stated in the lore; not the neutral not even on the Belf lore. This is the fallacy some helfers like you loove to pull out of your behinds to supposedly justify a hateful stance from Belves that is not canon anywhere.
Of course they ignore it, had they exercise a minimum of reading comprehension their 10+ years old emotional response becomes very childish very fastâŠ
Quote canon. No seriously put the canon quote in which this (Blood elves blaming Stormwind for the sins of Dalaran" is stated.
IÂŽll wait.
Just like High elf NPCs suddenly appeared in Stormwind from thin air in Vanilla, your point?
The irl commercial justification that a company has to take a choice regarding their product (in this case, the game and the features it provides like races, etc.) is absolutely IRRELEVANT in regards to how they actually implement and execute it (A.K.A. the lore portrayed to justify the A to B to C narrative development).
Are Alliance Night elves just as weak reasoning in Alliance and should be booted to Horde because devs put them on the faction simply to justify PvP? (if Horde and Alliance are owners of an individual map kinda difficult to justify Battlegrounds, dear)⊠Me thinks this is irrelevant.
Exactly. If weÂŽre 100% respectful of the narrative the Vanilla Helves wouldnÂŽt exist (taking into account the lore stated elves went back to their kingdom after Anasterian left the Alliance) and Belves would had been part of the Illidari faction.
Under this argument, either Horde or Alliance âBlood Elvesâ -by WC3 standards ALL call themselves Blood Elves and Alleria et al died in Outland- are âstupidâ.
Oh, but we actually have the example about their âif Belves rolling Allianceâ. ItÂŽs called Aethas Sunreaver in Legion. And itÂŽs pathetic AF (cause yes, characters begging to be taken back by their abusers do scream weakness dear).
Cause it doesnÂŽt. Well, unless people wants to won literally the Belf stuff but on the contrary faction.
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just look at your avatarâs faction. thats all the proof needed. belfs didnt try to find friends in alliance nations, and alliance nations were deliberately portrayed as actively seeking to genocide or spy on the belfs. what other evidence is needed? youâre supposed to blame the alliance. and when the devs decide to make it look like youâre gonna be friends again, they make sure one of the alliance leaders, beats that idea over the head - et.al garrosh and jainaâs protracted war over the bell. likely the current horde and alliance truce will be ruined by tyrande.
Blood Elves being Alliance would have required just as much justification, and the point remains they are better on the Horde then on Alliance.
Alliance Quelâdorei we agree in I support them being playable on Alliance separate from BEs. But BE story being bashed because you and other actively ignore anything that doesnât fit your idea of elves gets old after awhile, and is a insulting to BE fans who take an active interest in their favorite race. No one but Alliance biased persons seem to be upset BEs are Horde.
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So you donÂŽt have lore nor much less canon lore proof? KK, glad we got clear regarding your headcanons.
Actually MORE justification cause Dalaran was Alliance before WotLK⊠itŽs the Aethas in Legion scenario literally speaking.
BEs and HEs were the same people, who only grew apart after the devs decided to put BEs on the horde and HEs on the alliance. well they didnt put them on the alliance, they allied them with the alliance, which is the only thing that makes sense.
it isnt an insult to you, itâs a commentary on the writing of the time. even the devs knew they were trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole
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And itâs imperative we highlight their differences. Instead of arguing for neutral BEs, or try to deconstruct BE story.
I donât know any one who plays both factions, unless youâre biased to liking Alliance. Who feels BEs donât make sense. I donât see masses of BE players upset. And the story does make sense it doesnât to you and others who ignore the story of course, and on several occasions youâve stated story in your eyes doesnât count, so if you ignore the story of course you view it as a round object trying to fit into a square hole.
My point is this, one canât expect people to respect the Alliance Quelâdorei narrative being told on Alliance. If we donât respect the Sinâdorei narrative thatâs told and belongs and makes sense on Horde. And as a fan of the HE request who prefers BEs, itâs a bit daunting to stick up for the HE request only to have to sit and watch BEs be bashed on account of you and others actively ignoring the story.
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you even say as much in your comment to lannisterian lol
see your blaming stormwind alliance for what lordaeron alliance did, after the fact, and you think its not inconsistent that belfs embrace other factions/races that tried to genocide them in the past. its all blamed on the alliance.
Couple things to try to steer the convo into a more friendly direction.
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Blood Elves where never going to be an Alliance race as they where intended to be Villains in Outland who went off the deep end.
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The playable Blood Elves where retconned in for Horde to play. These where also never going to be Alliance because they didnât exist until they wanted them in the Horde.
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Yes it makes sense for the Blood Elves to join Horde with Sylvanas and the betrayals but those where written in after the fact. So itâs okay to be a bit salty that the lore was a bit twisted to give the Alliance a âVillain Batâ moment but it does not change that it is the established lore.
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High Elves where not part of of this group both because they did not exist until retconned and because they where already defined groups. So it has no bearing in rather High Elves did or will become playable. If you want High Elves, ask for High Elves.
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Even if Blood Elves didnât go Horde in BC Alliance probably would have gotten Pandaren instead.
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i dont ignore the story, in fact, iâm looking at the behavior patterns of the game races, as per the devs decisions. they write it this way on purpose. presumably because its an object lesson on the follies of tribalism
However I can pull the lore quotes that show how the process would be done. I can pull Jailor Hassan quotes (showing the compliance of Dalaran regarding Garithos misbehaviour) and can quote Aethas begging to be part of Dalaran once again (A.K.A. the Belf demanding pretty please to be once again part of the Alliance).
Oh and can pull quotes citing Rhonin made Dalaran neutral to fight the Malygos menace too btw.
Stiull waiting for your quotes citing Belves hating on Stormwind cause of Lordaeron (aaand first mistake: Belves donÂŽt care on Lordaeron humans either⊠they pitied them cause Arthas -see: LiadrinÂŽs dialogue in âBotHâ-. The hate is 100% centered on Dalaran).
I repeat: their hypervalued emotional response becomes very childish very fast the moment they DO try to understand and comprehend Belf lore. ThatÂŽs the reason they donÂŽt do it, cause it becomes clear they have been feeling hurt for nonexistant reasons.
Only thing I see is you deffinitely not knowing how to read⊠since when Dalaran = Stormwind?
Words even start with a different letter, sheeshhâŠ
Finally, someone someone who gets it. Indeed, as a whole Horde Belves are a WC3 retconn simply because KaelÂŽthas ended up with Illidan in Outland in TFT (THAT is the retconn, not Humans nor Alliance Helves nor anything else).
I commend you in your respectful stance regarding Belves and the lore.
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well, are you as a blood elf on the horde, instructed to kill dwarves, gnomes, humans, worgen, draenei, light forged draenei, kultirans, void elves, mechagnomes and night elves because they are your enemies or your friends? and if they are your enemies, how did they become that way? back engineer it.
This Vulpera likes the idea of seeing High Elves in the Alliance 
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Simple, Blood Oath. And usually people in armed conflicts kinda defend themselves when a rando comes out to kill them.
Same can be said of any Alliance race (like Gnomes or Dwarves or LF Draenei) regarding the Horde races. Why do Gnomes fight against Horde Orcs if they have never ever interacted before, hmm?
See, this is what happens when you try to get a âgotcha!!â moment ina lore discussion using gameplay. Apples to oranges.
oh but i never stated they werent at war. youâre saying theyâre at war. but, and hereâs my point, the rationale for why they started being at war, is being glossed over because its inconsistent.