Iâm not the one saying that every member of a race is responsible for the actions of every other member. What I said was that saying that the Horde shouldnât have druids makes no sense because Malfurion became a druid while the night elven government was actively seeking armageddon.
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I wasnât seriously suggesting that druids be removed from the horde. I am questioning why druids would remain aligned with people who are blighting nature and burning down trees.
Well I canât read that sort of tone in text, all I have done is respond to posts made in front of me.
Because Malfurion wasnât following Azshara. The druids on the horde were still following sylvanas.
Malfurion didnât immediately start a civil war. Large scale insurrections donât happen overnight.
Did you even read the rest though?
"The horde army that burned down Teldrasil was the entirety of the horde because every single horde race was involved at the time.
Obviously the horde chilling in their cities and villages had nothing to do with it, but the horde army (again, that was composed of every horde race) was responsible."
Youâre comparing what Azshara did to her own people and to the world, to the horde army, who literally willingly followed through with their warchiefs orders to murder the kaldorei. The two are completely irrelevant to each other."
I specifically said that the horde army (that was composed of all horde races) was WILLINGLY responsible for the genocide as they WILLINGLY followed Sylvanas into battle.
Youâre comparing these horde soldiers who WILLINGLY followed their warchief into slaughtering night elves, to One lady strictly responsible for bringing demise onto HER OWN PEOPLE and the world. Malfurion and 99% of the night elves have nothing to do and did not participate to what Azshara and her highborne did.
The horde was FULLY complicit and actively participated in the genocide.
Thatâs the difference between the two.
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Well first of all not every soldier there was involved in burning the tree. Some did, some did not. Many thought they were fighting a conventional campaign and were horrified to see the tree burn including the leader of the orcs and main general of the Horde.
See again what youâre doing is saying every member of the Horde is responsible, but not every night elf is.
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They were horrified I agree, as they were not aware this would happen.
But that doesnât change the fact that they were complicit. None of them even opposed what was happening.
No I am not, as I clearly stated that it was the horde army, which was composed of every horde raceâŚPlease read the rest.
I also clearly stated that not every single member of the horde was part of that army.
HOWEVER, that does not change the fact that: those horde who were part of Sylvanasâ army WILLINGLY followed her orders, WILLINGLY slaughtered a bunch of night elves and WILLINGLY sat there while the tree burned down, or WILLINGLY helped the tree burn down, despite being horrified or not.
None other than Azshara and her highborne were responsible for killing HER OWN people and destroying the world, no other night elf took any part in this.
I get that youâre trying to use peopleâs own logic against them, but you need to actually have a two situations that are relevant to each other for it to work lol.
No more âbut you said quotes very specific part of my post while ignoring the restâ please!
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That absolutely changes it. If you donât know somethingâs going to happen you canât be blamed that it happened.
How? The time between Sylvanas ordering the catapults to fire and the time they fired was like what, 10 seconds.
What should they have done, thrown themselves into the sea in the hopes of raising the sea level enough to put out the flames?
Then explain this please.
How is that willing exactly?
- Azshara and the highborne are night elves.
- Not all night elves are responsible for what they did.
- Some of the Horde army at Teldrassil did hella war crimes.
- All Horde are responsible because all Horde races were present.
Do you really not see the issue with that logic?
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No one in the horde immediately started one either. Some followed sylvanas right up until she flipped them the bird and left.
Even saurfang didnât turn on her because of Teldrassil, not really, and he stood there with everyone else and watched it burn.
I would hold the horde as a whole less accountable had they actually tried to stop her, instead of helping the tree burn faster. Some were not just complicit, they actively helped her.
Genocide wasnât the breaking point for the other horde leaders, undercity wasnât even though she raised horde fighters into mindless undead, dropping blight everywhere and the actions at brennadam werenât the breaking point, deciding to execute Baine was.
The horde as a whole seemed pretty okay with pretty much all of it. Nothing Iâve seen in questing, or in my reading shows otherwise.
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They followed through until the end, just because they surprise pikachud themselves doesnât mean they automatically are exempt of any blame for following Sylvanasâ orders.
No, but maybe not call it a day and go home after being so âshockedâ. None of the horde leaders even mentioned Teldrassil in BfA, itâs as if they donât care. None of the horde who were part of the burning even showed any remorse other than saurfang.
Again, Iâm not sure why you nitpick ONE phrase and choose to ignore the rest, itâs really unnecessary and you know exactly what I mean. TO reiterate (again):
The horde army is responsible due to WILLINGLY following sylvannas into battle, WILLINGLY burning down the tree under Sylvannasâ orders.
Just because theyâre shocked at the last second after following through with 90% of the campaign does not exempt them of blame, try again.
The only issue I see is that youâre completely ignoring what Iâm saying, time to reitirate (again):
The horde army (which was composed of horde from all races and backgrounds) was part of the burning yes.
I did not say all horde are responsible because all horde races were present.
Read please! Donât nitpick specific sentences where I donât mention the exact specifications. You know I donât blame the entirety of the horde, just the horde army (which again, was an army composed of every horde race).
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Iâm aware, some didnât even turn on her then. Just like it took a while for the night elves to fully turn on Azshara. Youâre the one saying they should have turned on her the second she did Teldrassil when the night elves didnât immediately turn on Azshara either.
He literally defects in the first battle after it.
How? A landmass sized tree was on fire. They didnât exactly turn up with fire trucks. Explain how they were supposed to do anything. What they were supposed to do.
Of three characters who comment on it during the quest two are Forsaken and the third immediately realises what a horrible thing heâs done and plans to kill himself the next time we see him.
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please stop with that nonsense, this is not the thread for that conversation, this is a thread for Thalassian love.
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I donât know, the shaman whipping up windstorms to help it burn faster could have not done that, maybe could have done something with the water element instead? The mages could have not been infusing it with arcane to help it burn? She gave the orders and they carried them out.
And the ones who didnât?
Be more specific with that.
The ones who werenât actively involved in the burning. We know that not literally every member went to the extremes of ignoring the established rules for their class to burn down a tree.
What about them? Did anyone actively oppose burning the tree and try to stop it? Just not using their abilities to help while still standing there watching and then following orders from sylvanas after isnât really a strong stand against it
Weâre now back where we were like 3 posts ago.
Stand there and watch I guess. I mean I just did point out what they could have done. Those not actively burning it could have stopped those who were.