High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

and youre point is already worthless if you have to justiy change for the sake of change just to make something different enough to be playable when outside of the ideas, they are not different. they are not unique, they are not special, they are splinters of a playable race and unlike void elves, nothing separates them

you just suggested what void elves are. the same conclusion development reached, that ‘high’ elves cannot be differentiated from blood elves and opted for a high elf variant instead :family_woman_girl:

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Yeah until you are unable to grasp the difference between a High Elf and a Blood Elf in terms of ideology, background and lore is utterly worthless engaging you.

Cause as I have said multiple times, if Void Elves had been made out of Alliance High Elves, the discourse would be now FAR different.

Yeh I just realized. Honestly I’m just glad that it wasn’t another person with the same level of asinine rhetoric.

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Dark Skin as an option for High Elves is in lore.

Half Elves are in lore.

Tattoos like Alleria are clearly possible.

Living completely different lifestyles is in lore.

Any culture can wear different Haircuts and Accessories.

New body types can be made whenever Blizzard feels like it.

There is no reason High Elves can’t be different or have new things.

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She likes to use words like “integrity” but fails to grasp her lack of such as she hop scotches across the forums with different names and faces, hiding her profile, and what not, trying to catch a few unsuspecting souls with her asinine posts.

What she also fails to realize is that no matter what name/face she tries to hide behind she can’t help but give herself away. And, of course, she’ll try and claim “oh I was never pretending to be someone else” but we all know that’s simply not the case.

Her posting style and hidden profiles (which you can still look up on the armory) are dead giveaways.

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congratulations. you like many others are either willfully ignoring the issue or still never understood it. the devs dont care if you have no problem with it, they do. they do not want the horde to mirror the alliance and vice versa, youre not going to get what would be for all intents and purposes an alliance blood elf, nor will the model be changed for you(again) when there is no reason for it to, because try as you might, none of the suggested changes make sense and deliberately skip over how similar they are, and because of that they will not be playable

‘high’ elves are the exact same race, they look the exact same, no amount of headcanon or jumbled logic justifies them being different in appearance, and blizzard has made it quite clear they dont want to blend factions. the sole difference isnt even political any more since the war ended, its a defunct adjective

its called understanding a two faction game and being mature enough to realize that you dont get everything you want, nor does every single thing in the game need to be offered to one faction. you want to be a high elf? the horde is there for you

playable alliance high elves are not some owed gift because a couple NPCs exist, high elves are not some different looking people than blood elves, and the light skinned and MAJESTIC elf isnt going to be shared

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And when was Blizzard considering the Alliance side of the argument when:

  • They complained about receiving 10+ horses that use stuff stolen from other mounts while Horde gets brand new models?

  • They complained about how Void Elves didn’t have any background story.

  • They complained about how lacking was the story behind the burning of Teldrassil and how weak was the “vengeance” lore that Night elves received in exchange.

  • They complained about how every BFA CGI cinematic was only about Saurfang feelings and Sylvanas actions.

  • They complained about how Alliance was only receiving Allied Races they never asked for, while Horde gets everything they want.

  • They complain about the low participation in high skilled PVP and PVE activities in the Alliance side.

  • They complain about how Alliance never gets a true victory to be proud of.

  • They complain about how the Horde racial toolkit surpasses the Alliance ones in many raid encounters.

  • They complain about how disjointed and rushed the storylines of most Kul’tiras zones felt.

  • They complain about how everyone is leaving the Alliance to join Horde because of the recruitment pool for raiding.

No dear, if there’s someone that’s not taking into account the other side of the argument is the Horde fanbase and Blizzard.

The side of the argument that always only matters is the Horde one, the Alliance side is never taken into account.

Do you know why? Because you guys…

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This is admittedly a more strident tone than I would take - but you’re not wrong on the core points in my opinion.

The Alliance that has twice as many unique mount models available to it? (Goblin Trikes, windriders vs Mechanostriders, Gryphons, ACTUAL hippos, and now bees)

No arguement there, hopefully it changes

Both sides got screwed over by the story this expansion, we’re all probably going to feel the sting the most if we play one faction mainly

We would give up those cinematics in exchange for ditching the storyline that made them necessary.

I feel like the Alliance made out like bandits with particle effects on 2 of their races and one completely brand new model vs 2 barbershop requests turned to races that you couldn’t even transfer your main to since they don’t have complete class overlap, decent trolls and NB that manage to look worse than the low poly model. This is straight up opinion.

Not a blizzard issue, it’s a player issue with the current common knowledge seeming to be that horde is the meta to go with driving the participation gap

When you explain how every single victory you get is actually not a victory and seemingly set the goal post at actually negatively effecting other players, then no, you’re not going to get ‘victory’ that suits your demands.

You ignore any alliance racials that do better there or in pvp to pretend that there’s massive horde bias.

opinion

repeat of an earlier complaint.

Oh, and look, if you look at Arenas and not just BGs it looks like the Alliance is fully capable of doing well in high end PVP

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Umm… I think you got your timelines mixed up there… when they were considering High Elves, then made up Void Elves as the alternative - how could anyone complain about the lack of background story when they didn’t even exist yet?

If this was back when Blizzard was considering Alliance side of the argument/High Elves.

Horde received a lot more stuff and way more time of development this expansion while Alliance received almost nothing, but you’re saying it’s fair because you didn’t like it.

Like yours then, but my opinion is backed up by data that shows how unpopular most of the Alliance versions are in comparison to Horde ones.

What a surprise! Yeah, but the only force that is capable of solving the problem, for some reason SHOULD NOT solve the problem…

You’re probably one of those people that will say that Alliance should overcome this by themselves.

That’s what Blizzard should’ve said to Horde players back in Vanilla when Alliance outnumbered the Horde:

“It’s a player issue, we’re not going to do anything.”

Alliance loses two times in a row at the beginning of the expansion with even devs making fun of it at Blizzcon.

I’m not saying that Alliance must destroy the Horde faction, but they’re unable to beat them in any battle, to be able to kill Rastakhan they had to lure the Horde army to another zone… and to be able to remove Sylvanas from her throne they had to join Saurfang forces, because for some reason the Horde halved in two is more powerful than the whole Alliance…

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I was actually hoping for an Alliance Victory to counter balance the fact that our last few victories have been pyhrric. Come on, the war has ended but there has been no terms, no cession of territory.

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100x this.

I’m seriously fed up with how poorly this whole thing has played out. I’ve relegated myself to classic now because, well, it’s just better and I can make believe these problems don’t exist yet.

When I look at retail… that faction gap is only gettin’ bigger. I’m not playing Alliance anymore. I want furries. I want the better looking druids. (The abomination of the kul’tiran boomchicken is awful). And now that mechagnomes are a thing? The diaper? No. At some point there won’t be an Alliance to crush because it will just be an NPC faction. That or they’re going to have to remove factions and make every player a mercenary for hire that can choose their faction independently.

That could easily solve playable high elves on Alliance. Pick your race. Pick your faction. Enjoy.

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I think Blizzard never stated that they were going to make High Elves, that’s something that most people speculate was the case, but without any confirmation. Do you have a link?

Nightborne and Highmountain also didn’t have any background story prior to Legion, but Blizzard made tons of Nightborne lore and also Highmountain lore before their introduction. Void Elves never had the same treatment, that’s my point.

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Huh, going by 120s, Void elves are the most popular, Zandalari and Nightborne, Dark Iron and Mag’har are tied, then LFD, then HMT and the KT end the batch. Looks pretty even to me, but the Void Elves are close to twice as popular as the next AR down.

So how do you fix player participation when it’s mainly just people going with the common knowledge? Give the Alliance broken racials again? Gnomes might help you there.

Wrong.
You lost Teldrassil. That’s it.

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Fair enough: I’d hate having to raise axe to you, but Stormwind has to pay for their neglect and its consequences.
One way or another.
Here’s hoping I won’t have to whistle ‘Dixie’.
Skäl.
:beer:

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Just gonna debunk this…

Zandalari are the most popular, 10k vs 9k for Void Elves at 120. A larger gap for all levels.

What are you talking about “common knowledge”? The horde are the preferred faction. Period. Why? Ask Blizzard. Why hasn’t something been done to bolster Alliance? Ask Blizzard. Why isn’t anyone asking Blizzard? Because they can’t hear the Alliance over the cheers of the horde getting what they want. You seem to be blaming players… that’s wrong. This is 100% Blizzard’s fault.

LOL! Seriously? Did you even play both sides of the story? The laughable Alliance haven’t won anything of substance all through BfA. Name one.

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That’s why I said “most” because Void Elves are “carrying” the others, but we’ll talk again about it by the end of 8.3, there are more Allied Races coming, we’ll see how it’s going to end there.

They could also end the factions, or allow cross-faction guilds like the Elder Scrolls Online. Racial buffs are not the only option.

They could also come with other solutions, but doing nothing is unacceptable unless “you know” they don’t care about Alliance side.

And Undercity, Sylvanas also point it ou in the cinematic: “You’ve won… Nothing!” pretty accurate btw.

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Funny, I see roughly 90k Zandalari vs 140k Void elves on US at 120

Nah, your debunking is 100% something else that starts with B

So, let’s see, the Horde has lost Lordaeron, had Dazaralor raided and the fleet destroyed, up until deus ex oceanum evened things out and led us to the little kumbayah where horde lost even more characters for no good reason. And for the first few of those we didn’t lose those to ourselves.

The Kt throw off the bottom, but it seems like a reasonable spread, I mean while Void Elves are kinda close to twice as much as the others, it’s still less thant 2% difference, so relatively even, and not like it’s one faction has all the popular ARs and the least popular are the other side.

That’s true, only thing I could think of is adding a reward type deal that’s decently balance to the first X groups to clear raids on each faction to encourage people to actually do the content on Alliance and maybe see it’s not that bad. It’s kinda like Classic how we see how (admittedly based on a late patch) that things most of us wouldn’t think of back then were much more effective than what the top raiders did, find a way to break the common knowledge. But cross faction would work if Blizz was willing.

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Here is something to look at. Believe it is the work of Moonli9ht, from reddit.

Ion’s main points can be separated out and argued with individually, to show this is a very weak response. In his defense, it was supposedly off-the-cuff, but since it is so often used to attack the High Elf argument, it becomes mandatory to dismantle the entire thing.

Point 1: "They look too similar to Blood Elves".

It’s an easy argument to make, but it very quickly becomes a soggy answer for a number of reasons. For one, most Allied Races are another race with minor tweaks. If all High Elves are is Blood Elves with a different eye color, then all Lightforged Draenei are is Draenei with a different eye color. All Mag’har are is Orcs with a different skin color. All Nightborne are is Night Elves, period. But there are a number of ways to differentiate the race that are canon to High Elves (eye color, hair colors, tattoos) , and several that could be added without the help of canon at all (stance, idles, voice). In this sense, Void Elves are a much bigger poster child for this problem – they have the EXACT same silhouette as the Blood Elves. If the two were fully armored, the difference would be the color of their ears. Even this pretends that the problem exists at all, which is arguable – Pandaren have existed in the game for years with no issue on target identification from the player’s side of things, and the only Blizzard employee to have ever spoken out against the concept no longer works with Blizzard.

Point 2: "By creating a High Elf playable Allied Race, we are giving the Alliance Blood Elves".

Another easy argument to make if you’re not familiar with the story of the world. High Elves came first, and were originally aligned with the Alliance. The race was forced to splinter after a handful of political and ideological disagreements, as well as pressure from the Alliance itself. The group that continued to call themselves High Elves have always been Alliance, and continue to be so for every expansion they’ve been a part of, even Battle for Azeroth.

Point 3: "It blurs faction lines".

No more than adding Blood Elves to the Horde did after High Elves had been established both in the original Warcraft series and then Classic WoW onward as an Alliance race. No more than Void Elves do. No more than Pandas did, in the absolute worst case scenario where no unique customization is offered to High Elves save for eye color, which is undesirable for all parties.

Point 4: "There isn’t a clear example of who or what High Elves are".

This was the line that led a lot of pro-High Elfers early on to thinking that Ion was “trolling” a bit – an overwhelming number of threads, polls, suggestions, and even tweets made at him during the Q&A included different factions and origins for THE group of High Elves that would join the Alliance. The Silver Covenant, Auric Sunchaser’s High Elves, Hinterlands High Elves, etc. were all listed consistently in an effort to provide flavors of High Elf for the community and Blizzard to choose from. As far as leadership, Vereesa has been a character in WoW since Wrath of the Lich King, with a plethora of reasons to throw her lot in with the Alliance – and she has, both in Dalaran and elsewhere like the Isle of Thunder.

Point 5: "If you want High Elves, you want a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf, and the Horde is waiting for you."

This was a way for Ion to push the idea that anyone who wanted High Elves were vain and superficial, solely chasing after an aesthetic. He chose to word it in a way that also made a connection with Hitler’s master race concept, in a way that cannot be easily dismissed as accidental – this has the added benefit of turning the community on each other, and gives the anti-High Elf crowd an incredible source of ammunition in numerous ways.

It’s now politically correct to attack anyone who is pro-High Elf because if they like High Elves, they’re “sharing an ideology with literally Hitler”.

Since the line itself is solely in relation to looks and is his only direct attack on the High Elf argument itself, to the anti-High Elf crowd it is easily seen as an attack on the “core” of the argument, as if Ion was calling out High Elf fans for “what they’re really after”. Anyone who says they like anything about High Elves other than their looks is now dismissed as being dishonest, because the Game Director implied that they were.

It goes an additional step by making it very demoralizing to talk about High Elves, even in a casual setting, because anyone regardless of how informed they are can parrot Ion’s argument and feel righteous by shutting it down in a “politically correct” way.

The community now blames each other, instead of Blizzard’s response (blaming the player instead of the company), taking any Blizzard response out of the equation much to the company’s convenience.

It isn’t the player who wants High Elves’ fault that Void Elves were added to the game. It isn’t the player’s fault that 2 of the Allied Races added (of 8 confirmed so far) have been Elves. Yet, the points that are entirely out of the player’s hands are used to attack the High Elf argument retroactively more than anything else at this stage.

This all ties into the last, and biggest point against High Elves.

In no small part thanks to Ion’s response, it is now exhausting to talk about High Elves with the community at large in any capacity.

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Sylvanas destroyed both Teldrassil and Undercity, at best we can call it one Win for Horde and one Tie for both factions in Undercity.

There’s no way we can call Undercity a Victory for Alliance, it simply doesn’t feel or plays like it.

Also, in 8.2.5 it’s funny how every NPC in-game keeps alluding how the Alliance and Saurfang forces TOGETHER are maybe NOT powerful enough to remove Sylvanas from her throne…

The Alliance was portrayed like literally incompetent losers the whole expansion.

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