High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

[Jalcth-wyrmrest-accord]

https://youtu.be/nuffMndkrys Your elves can be found here, enjoy.

[Elyssaria-kargath]

They like to go back and forth between wc2 and wc3 themes… /looks at Dredes armor… wish they would just go back to the wc3 night elves.

They go back to the rts now and again because that is what the foundation of WOW is built on!

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

Yet not a single AR has surpassed the most played core race.

And it’s VERY disingenuous to say Blood Elves become the most popular race because aesthetics when evidently a huge part of their popularity is because they allowed the Horde to be Paladins. As well as dismissing the overall reason why the Horde became more popular and Blood Elves being the most popular race being separate issues.

ARs require players to unlock, and then level or pay to level the character, which obviously is not going to reach population numbers for characters that people can make from the moment they pick up the game. Not to menion NO race has reached the popularity of Blood elves.

And yet they remain the most popular despite different races having access to the Paladin class, and have continuously kept that crown for quite some time - its not to suggest that playing a paladin wasn’t also an evocative addition, but that allure died long time ago, and the blood elf popularity has continued to remain at the top. Its far more disingenuous to say their appearance doesn’t play a large role in their popularity.

No, it would be actually using some related evidence instead of simple fearmongering and saying “well I think that would happen”

It’s not “solid” proof, as the variables and context of past events are not the same, and no amount of data-diving is ever going to give us “proof” of how players will react today, or tomorrow. It’s strange to attack a concern for having no solid evidence, by offering a solution that also has no solid evidence.

Again, the fear that HE’s would be empirically “better” than Blood Elves is irrational and unfounded: Could you claim empirically that ANY Allied Race is “better” than their source race?

No, you can’t; the only evidence we have is that NO ALLIED RACE POPULATION HAS SURPASSED OR EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE POPULATION OF THEIR ORIGIN RACE.

Yet somehow, with no evidence, you think High Elves would be just this.

As NO IDENTICAL RACE TO BLOOD ELVES HAS EVER BEEN INTRODUCED, DIFFERENT CONTEXT, AND DIFFERENT VARIABLES RESULT IN DIFFERENT RESULTS. I can type in caps too.

There is no evidence of EITHER side, it’s cautious speculation. If you don’t agree, thats fine, but offering MORE theorizing on the other side of the court doesn’t lesson the concern.

Because every time someone tries to present another possible change you have everyone saying “Well then those aren’t High Elves” Why even present a personal idea that you have no way of enforcing or lobbying for? It’s nonsense to try to ask everyone to rally behind a fan concept. The only one that can decide to pivot HE’s to any other place is Blizz.

Who says “Those aren’t High elves” The opposition? If you don’t believe those themes truly define High elves WHY do you care if they think they’re High elves or not? If you’re referring to the pro side than that simply outlines the fact that those these are deemed essential to defining the race visually.

People have been saying since VE’s were introduced they hoped they came from HE’s. Indeed a large part had obvious issues as the Void itself is just such an out of the left field change thematic wise, but there has always been a conversation about it.

Again, you can’t as us as a community to come up with an idea of how change HE skin tones and hair so YOU feel confortable enough and then Blizzard lifts it up? It makes no sense.

Then the solution could easily be “Add the High elves to the void elves” You have the lore fantasy of High elves, without infringing on the visual theme of Blood elves, and all parties are happy, but instead the FIRST suggestion was IMMEDIATELY “We want fair skin and blonde hair” it’s been the alternative to High elves for quite some time, sending the message that in the end, those visual themes are the most important and defining themes they want in that race.

It’s not JUST us, it’s Blizzard as well. Ion listed these VERY themes as essential in order to be playable, its the very REASON void elves were changed in the way they were. Horde players have been playing Blood elves for nearly a decade so how it might impact the most popular race is important to blizzard, it’s not YOUR place to tell us that our opinions are of no concern.

I’m pretty sure Blizz could give HE’s skin tones that are different by two shades from HE’s for whatever reason. Again, that’s not something that’s up to us to decide and it’s nonsense to ask us to say anything but “Sure they could find a reason to change High Elves skin tone”

That was the entire point of void elves, that’s why they were changed specifically to avoid infringing on the “fair-skinned, blonde haired” elf theme. It was his answer when players asked why they chose void elves over High elves. If you truly believe that those themes are inconsequential than that’s an issue you can take up with Blizzard. But addressing EVERYTHING but the very thing the devs said were the problem with playable high elves is not going to get you any closer.

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

They like to go back and forth between wc2 and wc3 themes… /looks at Dredes armor…

It’s almost like this game was base off of the story and themes of an RTS. Weird huh?

They go back to the rts now and again because that is what the foundation of WOW is built on!

Well said.

wish they would just go back to the wc3 night elves.

Khimaira, Mountain Giants, Fey Dragons, Keepers of the Grove/Dryads.

Just sorta associated with Night Elves now. Not part of their group.

Barely Nocturnal or Savage at all.

[Rahkilar-moon-guard]

Hope they will become more nocturnal and savage with the direction Tyrande is going.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

This isnt about blonde hair, fair skin and blue eyes and what not… that is squandering the pro side argument to make it easier to dismiss.

I don’t dismiss their argument, as its something I’m fully behind IF those problems are addressed. I’ve made this clear multiple times whenever different shaded skinned High elves have been presented.

the Alliance has high elves allied with them (to what extent is debatable)… thats not stealing from the horde when we already have it.

Btw pre-conditional loyalty is a non-factor… all allied races have either been neutral or villains at one point.

Again the “lore” argument has never been an issue, it’s the visual gameplay problem that the devs expressed that is also my problem. And if those themes truly aren’t the goal, then there really shouldn’t be a problem in addressing them as to avoid the problems Ion, and many players have voiced.

[Alfgerdhr-moon-guard]

So it IS the skin and eye colors with you?
Skäl.

[Murgatroyd-lightbringer (Murgatroyd)]

Ok, so for argument’s sake; High Elf fans would be fine with the new appearance I used to show my support for the pummeling Night Elves got in BfA? Night-gray skin and near black eyes?

I mean, if it’s not about skin color or eye color, why not?

[Alamara-goldrinn (Alamara)]

Tell me a good story and maybe I can accept a radical change.

If you have nothing, then we stay with our suggestions.

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

please provide citations where blizzard officials have said no to high elves being made playable.

You can’t. They don’t exist.

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

blood elves and high elves fulfill different “visual” fantasies too you know?

You keep saying they have the same themes but methinks you really don’t know what a blood elf actually is thematically. You just impose your headcanon onto them and have done it for so long you actually believe it to be real.

[Nettlegear-wyrmrest-accord]

The grand visual fantasy of being blue eyed vs green eyed?

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

Let’s pretend your fear has validity: Don’t give High Elves paladins. BE paladins are the most popular class/race combo. What do you know, that’s a compromise babey!

I understand this is an example but at the very least this will spend some time at the negotiation table.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

blood elves and high elves fulfill different “visual” fantasies too you know?

You keep saying they have the same themes but methinks you really don’t know what a blood elf actually is thematically. You just impose your headcanon onto them and have done it for so long you actually believe it to be real.

You mean being different eye colors? That’s not a different “visual” fantasy. And different lore or culture is also not a “different” visual fantasy.

My boyfriend plays a dwarf for instance, because he loves dwarves. So when he started playing WoW he naturally made a dwarf - Not because he knows anything about Dwarven lore in WoW, or their culture, or their background, but because of the visual fantasy of playing a dwarf.

Blood elves, and High elves represent the same visual fantasy to players because visually they look identical. These are the points Ion stressed over when he was discussing just why they chose Void elves over High elves. That he did not want to infringe upon the identity of the Blood elves by giving it to the alliance.

[Murgatroyd-lightbringer (Murgatroyd)]

@Alamara-goldrinn

Tell me a good story and maybe I can accept a radical change.

If you have nothing, then we stay with our suggestions.

Ok, I’ll work on that - but at least it’s nice to know you didn’t go straight to:

[Nicodemùs-argent-dawn (Nicodemùs)]

Another thing to note is that only Blood Elves can be Demon Hunters on Horde side so that also pushes their numbers up even further.

The Paladin alternatives for Horde came later and Tauren and Zandalari Trolls obviously didn’t appeal aesthetically to the bulk of current Blood Elf Paladins since they are still the race with the most paladins on the Horde.

Paladins and Demon Hunters combined make up roughly 45% of all blood elves at 120.

There’s little incentive for Blood Elves to faction change if Alliance High Elves came to be. Just because they are “new” doesn’t mean people will automatically faction swap en masse. They didn’t do it for Void Elves and it’s ridiculous to believe they would have if VE’s just had a single flesh tone skin option.

There’s no actual incentive to give up your guild, friends, bigger pool of raiders and mythic+ population, and all the establishment you’ve made for yourself as a Horde character.

Anyone who claims that Horde Blood Elves would faction swap in any significant number just because Alliance got playable High Elves is out of their mind. The notion is completely nonsensical.

[Murgatroyd-lightbringer (Murgatroyd)]

please provide citations where blizzard officials have said no to high elves being made playable.

You can’t. They don’t exist.

They have no reason to. Not now, and not ever. You will never see a flatly declarative statement to that effect because there’s no need on their part to do it. There’s no upside to making that statement and no downside for not making it.

Not making it keeps giving people hope. Hope makes people keep paying to play and taking it away would cause some - but I’m betting not nearly as many as some people would claim - to quit. And frankly, even if they did say it there are some who would create the next megathread with the starter “We know they said no, but they could always change their minds!”.

If you’re looking for a definitive statement that they will never put High Elves in the game you’re never going to get it.

[Rreifren-grobbulus]

well actually they don’t. Blood elves are the high elves for wow when we take the fantasy of high elves int he fantasy genre abroad.

WoW high elves however are more like human elves. Not half elves per say but they are basically humans but elves.

[Cassima-greymane (Cassima)]

If given the choice to side with Tyrande in seeking revenge on Sylvanas, you better believe I would take it. But if she decides to take her vengeance out on the Alliance, I’m drawing the line.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

well actually they don’t. Blood elves are the high elves for wow when we take the fantasy of high elves int he fantasy genre abroad.

WoW high elves however are more like human elves. Not half elves per say but they are basically humans but elves.

What? This isn’t even a coherent response or argument.

Visually they are identical to Blood elves, regardless of whether or not they dress, or live with humans. That is arguing lore-fantasy against visual-fantasy, which are entirely separate things as players can dress, and customize their characters however they want.