High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

[Broflake-illidan]

Go for it, pictures of high elves who look like blood elves is certainly better than your attempts a discussion.

[Fyorsing-sargeras]

When they eventually add High Elves, you’re going to feel super silly.

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/011/671/952/large/basel-alnashashibi-pic-1.jpg?1530813073

[Fyrebusche-wyrmrest-accord]

They already did. High elves were planned and implmented back in TBC

[Fyorsing-sargeras]

And they added a new flavor in Legion, and they’ll almost certainly add the final flavor in the future.

Sorry about your luck.

[Prétre-sargeras]

I like that picture of Alleria.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

Their different responses to the destruction of the Sunwell is major point of distinction between the HE’s and BE’s – the former leaning into individual solutions, like magical objects, and the latter turning to the use of the Fel (unwittingly, in most cases).

Most Blood Elves didn’t even know Fel was being consumed actually, only Warlocks really “fed” off of Fel. The fact that it was something not known to the public leads me to believe that it was more of a sole discretion thing than cultural decision that reflects on them as a whole race. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’m not arguing that there aren’t more distinctions “culturally” between High and Blood Elves, mostly that most current High elven themes are purposely separated from standard Thalassian themes to drive the narrative that they’ve shed their High elven customs in favor of the Alliance. While it’s not the only distinction, it’s a very prevalent and important one none the less, and it would seem distasteful to ignore that element and then start suddenly using Thalassian themes to define them out of no where.

It’s somewhat likely that many HE’s were completely weaned off of the Sunwell during it’s absence – and while there is a great deal of ease and convenience involved with drawing from the Sunwell, it’s hardly fair to presume that the group which adopted tolerable solutions (i.e. magical artifacts, meditation, basically anything apart from the Fel) would willingly hamstring themselves by re-developing a dependency on the Sunwell.

Magical addiction isn’t something that a Thalassian Elf is ever “weaned” off of, they constantly require meditation to help “cope” with their withdrawals as evidenced by Aurora in Shadow of the Sun. Thousands of years bathing in the magic of the Sunwell isn’t going to wear off in such a little time. Remember, Alleria was separated from the Sunwell for a thousand years, and even she was drawn back to it in complete reverie.

And while I like this line of thinking, it’s neither implied or suggested anywhere in the game or story that High elves are reluctant to embrace the newly restored Sunwell. In fact with so many High elves residing in Quel’danis the opposite seems to be the case, as they’re all seen kneeling and bathing in the Sunwell’s light.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

hey she’s got a nelf helf face with alleria tat. love the earring.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

When they eventually add High Elves, you’re going to feel super silly.

I’mma pull the Uno reversal card and say what if high elves ARE added, just as a customization option for Belfs. THEN who’s gonna feel silly. c;

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

THEN who’s gonna feel silly. c;

me for playing retail at all, once i realized that blizz doesnt have the resources to sustain a 2 faction game anymore so they just focus on one.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

me for playing retail at all, once i realized that blizz doesnt have the resources to sustain a 2 faction game anymore so they just focus on one.

Yeah, honestly I’m rooting for this faction dissolving because it’s our best chance of actually having High elves added to the game besides simply adding them as a belf customization. I just can’t imagine Blizzard taking a different stance on something they’ve been so resolute over for so long (Which weren’t afraid to vocalize to the fans.) unless something changes the whole game, and the rules it goes by.

[Fyorsing-sargeras]

I’m not arguing that there aren’t more distinctions “culturally” between High and Blood Elves, mostly that most current High elven themes are purposely separated from standard Thalassian themes to drive the narrative that they’ve shed their High elven customs in favor of the Alliance. While it’s not the only distinction, it’s a very prevalent and important one none the less, and it would seem distasteful to ignore that element and then start suddenly using Thalassian themes to define them out of no where.

I’m not sure you’d be able to find a single post, in this thread or previous ones, wherein someone in favor of playable HE’s is actively requesting that Blizzard depict the HE’s as being almost completely disassociated from the broader Alliance?

If we’re talking about the Silver Covenant, they quite literally live alongside humans and call the decidedly human-inspired styles of Dalaran their own. This just seems like you’re concerned about something that almost nobody is asking for?

Magical addiction isn’t something that a Thalassian Elf is ever “weaned” off of, they constantly require meditation to help “cope” with their withdrawals as evidenced by Aurora in Shadow of the Sun. Thousands of years bathing in the magic of the Sunwell isn’t going to wear off in such a little time. Remember, Alleria was separated from the Sunwell for a thousand years, and even she was drawn back to it in complete reverie.

I wasn’t trying to imply that their addiction disappeared, but that the drug (Sunwell) disappeared – and the response to this situation was different for Blood Elves and High Elves.

The BE’s enacted a state-wide policy, utilizing the Fel in a clandestine manner, to address the needs of their citizenry – the vast majority of the populace didn’t actually have to make any behavioral changes. They went from nonchalantly utilizing the Sunwell, to nonchalantly utilizing magic-filled crystals.

The HE’s didn’t have a state, and therefore no state-wide policy, which forced them to tackle the issue at an individual level – which resulted in behavioral changes in some cases, or new sourcing on magical energy in others. In either case the HE’s became much more independent of the Sunwell, not because their addiction disappeared but because they found alternatives that weren’t terrible (i.e. the Fel).

And while I like this line of thinking, it’s neither implied or suggested anywhere in the game or story that High elves are reluctant to embrace the newly restored Sunwell. In fact with so many High elves residing in Quel’danis the opposite seems to be the case, as they’re all seen kneeling and bathing in the Sunwell’s light.

I wasn’t saying they wouldn’t be happy for it to be restored, or even that they wouldn’t utilize it, but that they almost certainly don’t have a complete dependency upon it – owing entirely to their years spent without it, wherein they had to change their lifestyles and adapt.

I’mma pull the Uno reversal card and say what if high elves ARE added, just as a customization option for Belfs. THEN who’s gonna feel silly. c;

The only way High Elves integrating into the Blood Elves makes sense, at least with what we know about their narrative(s) currently, is if the factions dissolve – in which case, this is effectively the same as adding playable High Elves to the game.

[Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord (Talendrion)]

I mean we even got told by Ros’eleth that the high elves of outland have been using draenei relics to stave off the pangs of addiction.

[Prétre-sargeras]

this is effectively the same as adding playable High Elves to the game.

They could return to their Quel’dorei, or Children of Noble Birth, name. Or just change the race to be known as the Thalassian race and introduce new UI on character creation to pick between the three sub races.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

classic seems the better solution since it doesnt require they figure out the alliance/horde dynamic as it is already set in lore. smooth sailing all the way to the bank.

i have played an emulator for classic everquest -the original game plus first two expacs - where they didnt have enough population to sustain the good/evil divide, so they just made it so you could cross faction group, raid and guild. you just cant waltz into each other’s cities, unopposed, as the npcs are still on the warpath. it works out pretty good but then everquest didnt have even remotely the level of animosity between player factions as wow does. and every class was completely unique and brought lots of value to a fight.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

I’m not sure you’d be able to find a single post, in this thread or previous ones, wherein someone in favor of playable HE’s is actively requesting that Blizzard depict the HE’s as being almost completely disassociated from the broader Alliance?

If we’re talking about the Silver Covenant, they quite literally live alongside humans and call the decidedly human-inspired styles of Dalaran their own. This just seems like you’re concerned about something that almost nobody is asking for?

They are though, many of the themes being presented are very “thalassian” in nature. Many using Alleria as a draw point, and Alleria quite literally jumped out of a time machine from when High Elves were their most “traditional” these are customs that modern High elves have shed long ago, so why would they start suddenly popping up with them out of no where? Why would they start wearing tribal tattoos, or start throwing their hair up in braids again?

Just go back to the opening post and look at the art being portrayed and tell me that you believe that none of those pieces were inspired/influenced by traditional thalassian themes.

I wasn’t trying to imply that their addiction disappeared, but that the drug (Sunwell) disappeared – and the response to this situation was different for Blood Elves and High Elves.

Both sides certainly did deal with the absence of the Sunwell differently, but none of this suggested that they looked down upon the Sunwell for their dependency. The Sunwell was even said to possibly cure them of their addiction over time.

The BE’s enacted a state-wide policy, utilizing the Fel in a clandestine manner, to address the needs of their citizenry – the vast majority of the populace didn’t actually have to make any behavioral changes. They went from nonchalantly utilizing the Sunwell, to nonchalantly utilizing magic-filled crystals.

The policy was to siphon magic from magical artifacts, or creatures, and then some resorted to Fel in secrecy. That was the entire intention of adding that plot point, that it was not something that the Blood Elf community as a whole was aware of besides the few that partook in it. To then inflate the actions of a few over the many doesn’t seem very reasonable to me.

The HE’s didn’t have a state, and therefore no state-wide policy, which forced them to tackle the issue at an individual level – which resulted in behavioral changes in some cases, or new sourcing on magical energy in others. In either case the HE’s became much more independent of the Sunwell, not because their addiction disappeared but because they found alternatives that weren’t terrible (i.e. the Fel).

I wasn’t saying they wouldn’t be happy for it to be restored, or even that they wouldn’t utilize it, but that they almost certainly don’t have a complete dependency upon it – owing entirely to their years spent without it, wherein they had to change their lifestyles and adapt.

I’m not arguing that they didn’t deal with their withdrawals differently, simply that it is never suggested or hinted anywhere that High Elves resent the restored Sunwell in any way, and infact suggest the opposite with having so many High elves taking it upon themselves to visit the well themselves. Like I said, that would have been a interesting take on them, but there’s nothing to really support that idea.

The only way High Elves integrating into the Blood Elves makes sense, at least with what we know about their narrative(s) currently, is if the factions dissolve – in which case, this is effectively the same as adding playable High Elves to the game.

I’m not sure, the Allerian High Elves seem very acclimated and accepting of Blood Elves, and seem far more suited to the Thalassian traditions than most modern High Elves. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that one of the only group of High elves that remained true to their High Elven roots now have their leader residing permanently at the Sunwell as an Ambassador among Blood Elves. That Ros’eleth, another Allerian High Elf referred to Blood Elves as “Quel’dorei” and like Auric Sunchaser spoke of her desire to reunify and restore their glory as a race. These stories, and characters were clearly written into the game to push this alternative perspective from a different group of High elves, as having two separate characters from the same group push the same goals does not seem incidental.

I think that if they were to add High Elves to the Blood Elves, it would be through the Allerian High Elves, with Auric Sunchaser being their leader.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

differences between old school everquest and retail wow, that dont support removing faction barriers in wow:

• everquest’s classes were unique and fights required their unique presence. wows classes are so homogenized, itd be just as easy for horde to bring horde equivalents and this would likely end up being the case, resolving down to alliance players being shorted on group, guild or raid invites, frequent lfd and lfr kicks and other sundry unfriendliness. lets face it, if a horde guild has a choice of bringing a horde paladin or an alliance paladin, theyre gonna bring a horde paladin.

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

If anything that makes them more like Blood Elves. Allerian High Elves are the only example of High elves resorting to alternative means to sate their magical addictions like Blood Elves. One of the key differences between Blood and High elves according to the Wow Encyclopedia is this very custom.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

yep. alliance players asked for alliance high elves for their steadfastness and determination, and instead we got blood elves redux, only blue, with tentacles and circles under their eyes. the devs trolled alliance players so hard on that one, it’s honestly a surprise to see people trying to defend it.

[Alamara-goldrinn (Alamara)]

That’s not true.

The old Encyclopedia made it clear that high elves felt better in the presence of magical artifacts. Powerful ones could even negate the addiction’s effect. Vereesa was able to cope with the withdrawal with Rhonin’s staff. The cases of high elves handling it through pure willpower were rare.

(Another important thing: nowhere it says that high elves absorbed these items’ power. It only says that the presence of such items helped them cope with the lack of magic.)

The problem here is that we never really got a story told from high elves’ perspective. We only have small tidbits of lore here and there. So, no one can say with precision how they handled the situation. We only know that it wasn’t through sucking magic off living things or storing demonic energy in crystals.

[Fyorsing-sargeras]

They are though, many of the themes being presented are very “thalassian” in nature. Many using Alleria as a draw point, and Alleria quite literally jumped out of a time machine from when High Elves were their most “traditional” these are customs that modern High elves have shed long ago, so why would they start suddenly popping up with them out of no where? Why would they start wearing tribal tattoos, or start throwing their hair up in braids again?

I’ll cede to you that you’re right, at least as it relates to people requesting that High Elves be implement with heavy inspiration from Warcraft II/Alleria.

I, personally, find any conception of High Elves which is predominantly inspired by Warcraft II to be… well, exceedingly unlikely; and for this reason, I tend to mute all the background noise about such an implementation. So I wasn’t even thinking about them, as it related to your statement.

The more likely scenario involves the Silver Covenant, whose in-game aesthetic is mostly unexplored and primarily consisting of copy/paste assets with occasional palette swaps, becoming more thoroughly fleshed out at a conceptual level – which would, according to their narrative, shift them into something entirely unique from Blood Elves.

This:

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/798787.jpg

Became this:

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/680909.jpg

In about ~90 seconds. If that amount of change can occur in days/week, in-universe, then there’s no reason why an aesthetic update for the High Elves would be off the table – especially when it’s been indicated, in-game and out, that the HE’s have been compromised at a cultural level (insofar as their “pure Thalassian-ness” goes).

Both sides certainly did deal with the absence of the Sunwell differently, but none of this suggested that they looked down upon the Sunwell for their dependency. The Sunwell was even said to possibly cure them of their addiction over time.

Who’s said they’d look down upon the Sunwell? I’m merely implying that the solution HE’s adopted, following the loss of the Sunwell, allowed them to become much more independent from any singular source of magic than the BE’s solution did.

The BE’s traded one catch-all solution for another, the HE’s didn’t.

The policy was to siphon magic from magical artifacts, or creatures, and then some resorted to Fel in secrecy. That was the entire intention of adding that plot point, that it was not something that the Blood Elf community as a whole was aware of besides the few that partook in it. To then inflate the actions of a few over the many doesn’t seem very reasonable to me.

That’s fair, it was an overly simplistic recounting on my part.

I’m not arguing that they didn’t deal with their withdrawals differently, simply that it is never suggested or hinted anywhere that High Elves resent the restored Sunwell in any way, and infact suggest the opposite with having so many High elves taking it upon themselves to visit the well themselves. Like I said, that would have been a interesting take on them, but there’s nothing to really support that idea.

Right, and that’s not something I’m arguing either.

I’m not sure, the Allerian High Elves seem very acclimated and accepting of Blood Elves, and seem far more suited to the Thalassian traditions than most modern High Elves.

Yes, but they’ve also got the most biting hatred of the Horde, which would almost certainly prevent any official unification from occurring – especially seeing as their commander has just returned, and committed to the Alliance.