Eh, there I was just specifically calling out that massaging of numbers, which is more quibbling on what the percentage is of rather than a major point.
And if we’re going to bring up all the stuff that has happened that might lower the blood elf pop, what about all the events where non-blood thalassian elves get killed? How many died in Northrend, or Isle of Thunder, or any of the other events where they participated as a military force. And any loss that they took is a bigger chunk of the pie than a similar loss to Silvermoon’s forces.
We don’t have good numbers for anything, we don’t even know if Blizzard has been keeping track in a simulationist way of the population of any race. So it just seems rather unhelpful to try and extrapolate into solid numbers from the little bit we do know.
I’m just saying not to try and attach precise sounding numbers to something that’s all just guess work based on incomplete knowledge.
It has been a long time, so I will definitely play it over again.
I do have double agent, or did, but I migrated accounts when I quit the game and forgot both the email, and password.
Obviously not, but more along the lines that even though the Kirin Tor is in charge of the silver covenant, as seems apparently in MoP, that such a group would be tolerated given Dalaran’s seemingly neutral nature since WotLK.
If I go out of my way to bring the blood elves back into Dalaran, why would I tolerate the formation of a military group that does not want them? Get what I mean?
Seems like it. In this game we are naught but peons.
The warcraft encyclopedia sites it in the scourge of quel’thalas, and this number is also spoken of
Right here.
So…yes…it mentions it.
Kael’thas gathered 90% of the 10% that was remaining after the scourge and then renamed them, or they renamed themselves apparently.
it is outlandish given it takes nine times as much to cause a single percentage tick compared to that of a high elf.
We’ll do this with numbers…because you guys hate me.
1000 blood elves
100 high elves
150 blood elves go off to outland.
Let us be generous and say half of them returned.
You have 925 blood elves left.
100 high elves left.
Yes…it is outlandish.
They would need to suffer a casualty rate of about 90% of the blood elf population to come close to the high elf population.
When did we miss this genocide?
Why is Lorthemar talking about his people coming back from the brink with such massive amounts of casualties.
We also don’t know how many high elves did not come back from outland.
or how many died in various conflicts.
So if we don’t have the numbers.
The 9/1 split is the safest bet.
I made an error on the 1000/100 split thing but you get my point
As the sc are a part of the kirin tor, vereesa likely made her case to the council, they agreed and allowed her to create the sc which was just a precaution against horde shenanigans in dalaran
I, quite literally, cited to the same source myself. So…
In Northrend, the High Elves are directly opposing the Blood Elves in Dalaran and at the Argent Tournament – but neither are actually present for virtually any of the major conflicts. The losses would’ve been minimal here on both sides, though you’re right that even if it was only a dozen casualties that would proportionately effect the HE’s more.
When they’re butting heads on the Isle of Thunder, the High Elves represent only a fraction of the Alliance’s forces, while the Blood Elves constitute the entirety of the Horde’s forces – meaning the losses are likely to have been much more substantial for the BE’s than the HE’s, here, though to what degree is anybody’s guess.
I agree.
The point I’m trying to make here is that, if nothing else, we definitely know that the original numbers presented to us by Blizzard (10% and 90%) are entirely inaccurate today – and while the Blood Elves have suffered two serious population losses, and two trivial population losses, we’ve only seen one population setback for the High Elves (Quel’Lithien) and all indicators suggests it was a negligible loss.
As the BE’s have experienced 3 more population setbacks than the HE’s, it’s a somewhat safe bet to presume that the 10/90 spread has been shored up somewhat significantly.
We don’t know that, because we don’t know the numbers for losses.
Any loss suffered by the HE population is going to affect them more severely than it will affect the blood elf population.
No, it isn’t, because again, population density means it takes significantly more damage to affect BE population numbers.
If there are 900 blood elves and 100 high elves, it takes a loss of 90 blood elves to constitutes a 10% loss, but a mere 10 high elves to constitute a 10% loss.
So we don’t know the numbers, and we know they aren’t shorted up significantly because if they were, it would have been very story worthy.
This numbers game is a stupid one with unsupported arguments to suggest how much the population may or may not changed in favor or against high elves.
Nine to one is what we have, and it is presumptuous to declare otherwise.
high elves lost 90% of their race.
10% stayed with the alliance
90% went blood elf.
The most we know number fluctuation wise is that some high elves turned to blood elves.
We don’t know about loss specifically, and if we do engage this dumb game, high elves lose more point by point
Did you ever think to consider births in your number crunching
Anasterian is also dead. So its not a stretch to think some exiled hign elves, who miss their homeland, came back to silvermoon and bent the knee to lorthemar
I see what you’re trying to get at, but you’re ignoring that the purpose of the Silver Covenant wasn’t to annihilate the Surneavers but to protest their being permitted to operate freely in Dalaran. There is no threat there, and wasn’t until everything erupted in MoP.
I don’t see a section titled Scourge of Quel’thalas, however, it’s irrelevant because of the link provided. I’m genuinely surprised that something was actually to be gleaned from their basic Race Information pages. I retract my words, the citation exists (until they change their website for the third time).
This is the math, without any ambiguity:
Presuming 1,000 survivors. 100 HE’s, 900 BE’s.
We know ~15% of the BE’s venture to Outland with Kael’thas.
We will assume half of that group (~7.5%, or 68 people) doesn’t return.
100 HE’s, 832 BE’s. We’re now at a ratio of 1 to 8.3.
That is the end of known numbers, so anything else added would be purely conjecture. Yet, without even factoring in the exiling of non-compliant citizens, the banishing of Umbric’s crew, or the soft-genocide that occurred in Dalaran during MoP, we’re already more accurate calling it a 1:8 ratio.
It’s absolutely fair to say the gap has been closing, not widening, and this is all without any substantive numbers on some of the more objectively important moments in their recent history. For all we know, Quel’Lithien was a double-digit percentage of the BE’s population (which would make sense, owing to the fact that Lor’themar considered them as being a threat to the peace of Quel’thalas for merely existing with different social values).
Not really, since both you and Broflake have stated on numerous occasions that birthrates are basically non-existent for Thalassians. I’d just intended to ignore it, on those grounds.
But if we’re planning on barking up this particular tree, we should all be cognizant of two things:
High Elves are currently living among the Humans, and as we’ve seen with both of the living Windrunners, hybrid babies get churned out quick.
It’s quite likely that there exists a consequential number of individuals in Dalaran who are of mixed High Elf and human heritage; and as we’ve seen from the depictions of the three characters we know of (Arator, Galadin, and Giramar), their phenotype is dominated by their High Elven genetics – suggesting that any individuals who are at least half-High Elf might very well be welcomed as kin by full-blooded High Elves.
Not only would counting half-High Elves automatically boost their population count, initially, but it’s absolutely fair to presume that half-High Elves churn out children at a much quicker rate than Blood Elves.
Just curious here. Why are we arguing about population? Population doesnt even matter when it comes to allied races anyway, but I am just wondering. The number of NPCs alone may outnumber some other races we have seen, and NPCs probably dont even account for the whole population.
We do not know how many survived, how many defected, and how many high elves died as well because there were high elves present in outland. It is a very large grey area.
The ratio could still be 9:1 as a result.
This is also considering the fact that during the purge of dalaran the high elves suffered loss as well.
Again, it takes a lot less to shift the percentage of high elves around than it does to shift blood elf numbers, and we do not know what exactly the numbers are, so for the sake of having the discussion we can only presume the 9 to 1 ratio remains.
Especially because we do not know how many high elves converted to blood elf as stated by the encyclopedia. It is a big grey area we cannot consider
All we know is there are were deaths, conversions, and nothing more.
Blizzard said blood elves and high elves are the same.
The lore states they are the same.
The names are differences of political ideologies only and nothing more.
You really should stop passively insulting everyone that disagrees with you dude. It doesn’t help your cause any.
“Blood elves kind of are high elves.” Was also stated by the developers.
The lore literally states that the high elves name changed to blood elves to honor the dead. This was not a biological change, it was a change in names to honor the dead. This is no different from you changing your own name.
I am referring to their bio race, in which case, yes, they are all the same. BLood elves are high elves and high elves are blood elves. If you are referring to their political identity, sure. In terms of racial identity, they are one and the same.
Probably because its a dumb example, given that Vrykul and humans are not the same race.
What I am saying is “Every Kul tiran and Stormwindian is a human.”. You are shifting the context from what I am stating to be right, when that is not the context in which I am discussing. The problem becomes the fact that people then interpret high elves and blood elves as being two different races. Just as night elves and trolls are two different races. Obviously, this is grossly untrue.
Dude . . . what you are saying has 0 logic. They changed biological in so many aspects , not because you cant see in the game doesnt mean that didnt happen in lore.
No because is not like they got fat or tiny ; they changed a lot of things that we cant see in the game but the book explain us what differences they have ; is not about titles…
They are not different races at all but theres enough differences to call them in other way ; whats the difference betwen vrykuls and human ? humans are short and less stronk but vrykuls are taller and stronk ; after that they are the same.
You see ? they can have a lot of similar things but they call different.
I can see you leaving the game when blizzard announces high elves for the alliance. I can see it.
You will need to find the lore which states blood elves changed biologically because there is none in existence.
All high elves are defined by their connection to the sunwell. Both blood elves and high elves share this connection.
They still continue sharing this connection after TBC. By lore, they are the same bio race.
Really? Which book? Every single book states that the high elves and blood elves are the same race and hint towards desires to reunify, and that there are several high elves who consider quel’thalas and silvermoon their home including Alleria and Vareesa, the most prominent high elves.
No…no they are not and it shows you are not really knowledgeable on the lore. Vrykul are from iron vrykul, which are direct creations by the titans. They are due to the curse of flesh.
Humans are another race, and they are the result of deformity and weakness. This is why the two races hold some similarities but are wildly different.
I see you are incorrect.
Cool, can you see the winning numbers for the lotto, because I imagine you would get it wrong just like you got everything else wrong. As well as the assumptions on what would make me leave the game.
Trying to predict human behavior in a vacuum is something not even the most gifted psychologist attempts.
