High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

[Hecatone-burning-legion (Hecatone)]

Suddenly… only one island was raised by Gul’dan, the rest were there all along. And there were night elves living there all along. And night elf ghosts. And a fully functional living Suramar city under a purple energy dome that everyone ignored until then. Oh, and tauren, despite no one in the Eastern Kingdoms knowing about tauren until the Horde went to Kalimdor. Oh, and vrykul, despite no one knowing what was a vrykul until they were awoken from their slumber in WotLK.

Star Trek better watch out for you.

[Mowachassa-dalaran (Mowachassa)]

I can’t keep reading this…

It feels like i’m trying to communicate with a rock.

[Broflake-illidan]

I would rather you not refer to me as a rock just because you are upset with me

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

compared to their parent race they are indeed lacking, like female Blood Elves have 21 hair styles and female Void Elves have only 10, it’s less than a half, and this is a norm for pretty much all AR’s.

to complicate things further,

• you can’t play them at all till at least level 110 after a 2 month rep grind that is twice as long as the horde equivalent

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• they dont have their own starter leveling zones,

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• they only have one racial mount,

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• no quests specifically for them,

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• nor further lore development

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• no quartermaster

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• lacking skin color and hair color options (basically 2 of the skin color and hair color options are so minutely different, its not enough to say its separate options. same for nightborne.

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you’d think for something so hard to get, you’d have more bells and whistles than a core race, but its the exact opposite

[Alamara-goldrinn (Alamara)]

Except gameplay perspective says they don’t look different because they are the same race, as per gameplay for the past 12 years.

There’s so many ways to work around that. You can base their culture primarily from elves that have been living in Dalaran for thousands of years, or those who live in isolated lodges far away from Silvermoon. Or, instead of changing the past, you can make a story with a new development, magical or otherwise, that makes them different.

There’s no issue. There’s dozens of solutions for these tiny problems.

If Blizzard can conjure up void elves from nowhere because of reasons, they can make high elves playable as well.

[Raistmajere-dawnbringer (Raistmajere)]

I just wanted to check in and give my support for you guys being able to discuss what you want to see in game.

[Broflake-illidan]

There’s so many ways to work around that. You can base their culture primarily from elves that have been living in Dalaran for thousands of years, or those who live in isolated lodges far away from Silvermoon.

The purge of dalaran states this applies to blood elves as well, as many blood elves also lived in dalaran prior to the scourge invasion. Many went with kael’thas to assist, and others surely left later on as well.
There is no story about isolated lodges, or the notion of them having a different culture either. It is just making up lore for the sake of it.

Or, instead of changing the past, you can make a story with a new development, magical or otherwise, that makes them different.

That is literally void elves though?

There’s no issue. There’s dozens of solutions for these tiny problems.

Which involve doing the things you don’t want with void elves which is making up lore. Again, you could take all this effort, and do it for void elves, but you don’t want to because itis about aesthetics not the lore.

If Blizzard can conjure up void elves from nowhere because of reasons, they can make high elves playable as well.

If Blizzard can conjure up void elves from nowhere because of reasons, they can make high elves playable as well.

but they didn’t, because it has too many inherent issues and is too much a point of contention alamara.

[Mowachassa-dalaran (Mowachassa)]

If Blizzard can conjure up void elves from nowhere because of reasons, they can make high elves playable as well.

And, those Void Elves were exactly Blood Elves the moment we are sent to recruit them. Alleria told Anduin she was going to Quel’thalas to recruit literal Blood Elves to the Alliance (this is not the Nightborne recruitment scenario cutscenes in Silvermoon, this is the actual Void Elf recruitment scenario). The issue is that Blizzard don’t allow two playable races to look 100% the same, so they did a Void thing to make those Blood Elves visually distinct from the Horde Blood Elves, boom, new playable race.

The conclusion is that, looking exactly or similar to an already playable race is a issue that Blizzard already circumvented before, and it doesn’t invalidate High Elves as a possibility.

To make it easier to some people who don’t read posts and quickly jump into automated responses:

Some Blood Elves are unhappy with their people’s alignment to the Horde, can they be playable? No, unless we make them visually different from the rest of the Blood Elves, so, Void Elves. Done, playable race.

Some High Elves in the Alliance are working and fighting for the faction for years, apart from their kin in Silvermoon, can they be playable? Yes, if we make them visually different from both the Blood Elves and the Void Elves of course, so High Elves. Done, playable race.

[Broflake-illidan]

This entire post of yours literally lists reasons blizzard didnt release high elves, but you go on to say “but they could do them differently even though their lore and gameplay design says they look a certain way! they can change it and their minds on the issue!”

But…why?
Why put that effort when void elves are literally the visually different look to justify high elves?
Lore wise, void elves never did anything for the horde. So what is the issue?

[Mowachassa-dalaran (Mowachassa)]

Lore says that Void Elves were Blood Elves before being recruited as a playable Alliance race so i don’t know were you are trying to go.

By your logic, “lore and gameplay design” determine that all Blood Elves have to look a certain way and they cannot be changed by any means, so modifying a bunch of them to justify a playable Race in the Alliance is out of question and Blizzard would never do that…

…except they did.

[Fyorsing-sargeras]

Except we have seen cases where the BE’s are ruthless in their actions. Beyond the dark portal depicts what a high elf would do when they’ve lost everything, in the case of Alleria who became extremely hateful of the Horde.

Yes, you’ll find cases of individuals behaving abnormally (relative to their particular cultural group) throughout the game – in every racial group, in every faction. What I was referring to was that since roughly MoP, virtually every Blood Elf which has featured prominently in any sub-narrative has been uncharacteristically ruthless, spiteful even.

Now you might argue that, since the faction conflict started flaring up in MoP, this is merely a reaction to the perpetual head-butting between the Alliance and Horde; and I’d agree that it’s certainly possible that this is the case. It begs the question, however, of why this sort of societal rage isn’t affecting any of their factional compatriots?

Yes, people are unhappy about the night elves, but simply because there is a difference between races does not mean they cannot align.

I’m not suggesting that they can’t be properly aligned with the Alliance, but rather that it’s exceedingly difficult to integrate them into the broader culture of the Alliance – which is also true for Blood Elves (and, similarly, the Forsaken).

The idea it is a thematic blunder is a poor argument, given it helps to give the alliance much needed variety, such as that of worgen who are brutal beings in their nature.

This is an apple being compared to an orange.

The condition upon which I referred to Blizzards decision(s) as a “thematic blunder” was that, in order to make them fit better into their respective factions, Night Elves and Blood Elves had fundamental aspects of their caricature altered.

This didn’t happen for Worgen, they’ve been savage from the start. Which means the answer to your question, “Should Worgen be with the Horde?”, is no.

High elves formerly left the alliance in WC2.

And yet by the time of World of Warcraft, which is what you’re talking about when suggesting Blizzard intended to avoid Tolkien-style narrative, Night Elves were playable and High Elves were again aligned with the Alliance. I’m not sure if you’re forgetting your own points on purpose, just to throw out buzzwords, or what?

So no, it is wrong to state high elves have been allied with the alliance.

I don’t care if it was 11 rejects, it is an absolute fact that the High Elves were aligned with the Alliance at the onset of World of Warcraft; and since your entire point was about Blizzards intent for World of Warcraft, WCII isn’t relevant to that particular talking point. Like I said above, it’s like you’re intentionally making random arguments in order to find ways to squeeze in buzzword commentary.

It has been a constant theme in the warcraft games.

We’re talking about World of Warcraft – you know, the MMO, launched in late 2004. You’re the one who specified something about the MMO, exclusively, but now you’re trying to backpeddle?

No, they would not be NE inspired they would need to be NE. High elves are blood elves, so if you’re going to do one, you need to do the same with the other and give over the exact same race in turn.

As of yet, there hasn’t been any Allied Race that wasn’t biologically derived from something else. I figured NE-inspired would explain sufficiently that I was talking about a group of Alliance-spurned NE’s…

I guess not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t void elves get two versions for long hair styles? one with tentacles one without it?
IMO, I’d take void elves over nightborne.

I believe they do, yes. If you want medium or short hair, though, you’re stuck with tentacles.

The only way I’ll be able to be happy with Nightborne on the Horde, and Void Elves on the Alliance, is if it is Blizzards intention to disenfranchise the NE’s and BE’s to some enormous degree in the narrative – effectively reversing the racial clout for each faction.

The Horde would become the faction with the more prolific grouping of Night Elves, via the Nightborne; the Alliance would become the faction with the more prolific grouping of Thalassian, via the Void Elves. Let’s be real, though, you would have to have coconut-sized cajones to pull the trigger on something like that and… well, Ion’s not the type.

A much more realistic hope is for the factions to disappear entirely.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

Lore wise, void elves never did anything for the horde.

lore wise, thats the only lore void elves have. blood elf lore. think what an insult that is to people who’ve been asking for playable alliance high elves for their lore. its like a customer asking you to provide a product that is better than the other company that makes a similar thing. and you not only give them the exact same thing the other company makes, instead, you also dont give them as many quality features. and then say… well, we gave you what you asked for. and the customers are just scratching their heads. it almost looks and feels like psychological abuse.

[Alamara-goldrinn (Alamara)]

Heh, Traycor’s post in MMO-C is a nice reminder:

Tried the Classic stress test today. As much as people in this thread talk about Blood Elves being the core Horde race, it’s interesting that we have a version of WoW that will soon be released that does not have a single blood elf in the Horde (npc or playable). But High Elves will still be Alliance. Just an interesting thought.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

i can go up in the mage tower and giggle about the high elf model there on classic, right now.

[Hecatone-burning-legion (Hecatone)]

think what an insult that is to people

psychological abuse.

Proportionality comes to mind.

If it makes you feel this strongly, maybe it would be healthier to walk away from it all?

[Broflake-illidan]

Lore says that Void Elves were Blood Elves before being recruited as a playable Alliance race so i don’t know were you are trying to go.

Blood elves did not assist the Horde in any military capacity until WotLK per shadows of the sun. Lorthemar had to be blackmailed by Sylvanas to lend any support, because blood elves were still injured and recovering from the reclamation of silvermoon.

The void elves are from the TBC era, as they were exiled by Rommath after the ignition of the sunwell. So they never participated against the alliance in any way, and therefore, never ran into issues of attacking former allies.

So there is no question of loyalty, because their loyalty was simply to their people first, not the horde. They renamed themselves to honor the dead, but that does not mean they assisted the horde. They never did per their story. So they are high elves who took a vacation for personal reasons.

By your logic, “lore and gameplay design” determine that all Blood Elves have to look a certain way and they cannot be changed by any means, so modifying a bunch of them to justify a playable Race in the Alliance is out of question and Blizzard would never do that…

…except they did.

And turned them into an entirely new race in the process.
So…given the fact they did what you are proposing, why would they do it twice?
If you want high elves who are modified in appearance? Void elves.
If you want a story modified to justify them being alliance? Void elves.

It begs the question, however, of why this sort of societal rage isn’t affecting any of their factional compatriots?

We do have cases in which they have been affected such as Jaina, or as recently seen, Tyrande and Malfurion. Each individual has their own motivations, and given that the HE and BE stem from the same culture means they are prone to the same mannerisms as the other. HE can be just as stuffy and proud as any BE. The notion they act any differently is just exaggerations.

I’m not suggesting that they can’t be properly aligned with the Alliance, but rather that it’s exceedingly difficult to integrate them into the broader culture of the Alliance – which is also true for Blood Elves (and, similarly, the Forsaken).

I get that I do, but I think it is a necessity to have a racial faction that doesn’t quite fit, because it offers more opportunity for internal conflict storyline.

This is an apple being compared to an orange.

The condition upon which I referred to Blizzards decision(s) as a “thematic blunder” was that, in order to make them fit better into their respective factions, Night Elves and Blood Elves had fundamental aspects of their caricature altered.

This didn’t happen for Worgen, they’ve been savage from the start. Which means the answer to your question, “Should Worgen be with the Horde?”, is no.

Hardly, it is a matter of what race fits what theme. Yes, worgen are brutal from the start so should they not be Horde? The behaviors of night elves have provided a means of humility, of conservative approach to magic which is also seen on the alliance side.
You can still be in theme while being significantly different.

And yet by the time of World of Warcraft, which is what you’re talking about when suggesting Blizzard intended to avoid Tolkien-style narrative , Night Elves were playable and High Elves were again aligned with the Alliance. I’m not sure if you’re forgetting your own points on purpose, just to throw out buzzwords, or what?

And yet by the time of World of Warcraft, which is what you’re talking about when suggesting Blizzard intended to avoid Tolkien-style narrative , Night Elves were playable and High Elves were again aligned with the Alliance. I’m not sure if you’re forgetting your own points on purpose, just to throw out buzzwords, or what?

No they weren’t. The high elves NEVER returned to alliance faction after WC2, and WC3 explains why they did not do so. So the only high elves that were alliance alligned were individuals who made a personal decision to do so. The high elves as a group, never returned to the alliance.
it is why I disagree with the notion of people saying “well high elves were always alliance allied.”, but the entire story says otherwise. You had individuals who chose to stay with the alliance, but to constantly suggest the high elves have always been alliance aligned is mis-leading and largely untrue.

By warcraft, WC3 had explained why the vast majority of high elves had changed their names and sought aid from the Horde and how the alliance alienated them.

We’re talking about World of Warcraft – you know, the MMO, launched in late 2004. You’re the one who specified something about the MMO, exclusively, but now you’re trying to backpeddle?

oh please, now you’re just being facetious here. You can’t know where you’re going unless you know where you have been. High elves in all of warcrafts history were always reluctant allies who left as soon as possible.
If you make the argument about warcraft 2004, then, there were no high elves allied to the alliance because they had left by then and had been petitioning to join the horde under a different name.

As of yet, there hasn’t been any Allied Race that wasn’t biologically derived from something else. I figured NE-inspired would explain sufficiently that I was talking about a group of Alliance-spurned NE’s…

I guess not.

When you say NE inspired it comes off along with the same notion of how Void elves are BE inspired. It was not your intent, so I
redact that previous statement I made.

I believe they do, yes. If you want medium or short hair, though, you’re stuck with tentacles.

1,2,4, and 11 are all short hair and I don’t see any tentacles. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong

A much more realistic hope is for the factions to disappear entirely.

If it lets me play a worgen on horde side i am find with that <_<

What? I am biased to be a wolf man.

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

Proportionality comes to mind.

well would you be satisfied if you were asking for a horde AR because it had been a horde ally since before vanilla. and instead the devs give you an alliance race with alliance lore and very little of its own identity, with fewer cosmetic options, odd colorations, a conceptual twin of an earlier race (blue tentacle people x 2, the first being draenei) you were given so alliance could be given what you actually wanted. this could go on. it’s not a case of jealousy either. it’s just really bad customer service.

[Broflake-illidan]

That is the thing though, the high elves left the alliance in WC2. They haven’t been allied with them since before warcraft.

[Ekatos-burning-legion]

1,2,4, and 11 are all short hair and I don’t see any tentacles. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong

My hair is tentacle free. Not sure about the eyebrows. Do stalks count?

[Hypêrspace-dalaran (Hypêrspace)]

how come there’s a high elf in the stormwind mage tower in classic but no high elves on the horde in classic?