High Elf Allied Race Megathread (Continuation)

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

idk man.

I assure you, It’s not worth the hassle in regards to certain people to get so worked up over.

[Fyrebusche-wyrmrest-accord]

They look too similar: DEBUNKED in the previous post.

1. they ‘look too similar’ because they are the same people. blood elves ARE high elves. chris metzen has said it. sir ion said it on two occasions. every fact in the game supports this truth. alliance high elves are identical in every single way except political ideology

2. void elf numbers, as evidenced in their assaults on zuldazar, are growing. it is heavily implied they have the ability to turn other elves into void elves. they have proven they can already do this to the wildlife as well. its just unconfirmed

3. that a few thalassian elves betrayed their people to remain with the alliance is irrelevant, they are indistinguishable from their countrymen except on a point of political ideology. they are NOT a core race of the alliance, whereas they are a core race of the horde. the horde has claim, the alliance does not

4. the SC exists because the few neutral high elf mages and hunters in dalaran who didnt become blood elves regarded the association of their kin with the horde as a betrayal. that isnt even my own interpretation, its their description in the reputation tab

So no. You guys have terrible arguments. You are the ones in denial and since I had to go through and shatter all your arguments AGAIN you guys are gonna just revert back to appealing to authority since you have NOTHING else.

youve been informed multiple times that the reason for our opposition to playable alliance high elves is to preserve the integrity of our faction and to respect the sanctity of the blood elf storyline

saying itss all about being petty and selfish is just a convenient strawman for you so you dont have to consider the other side of the argument

you know, the one with the all the evidence and developer support?

[Izzabelle-draka (Izzabelle)]

So what you discovered was, Aesthetics matter more than lore to most who are playing them

[Dorp-emerald-dream]

“Hate” seems a little excessive.

I don’t hate them but I do think their crusade is really unecessary lol.

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

Yes, that is the scientific conclusion, I have reached.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

People don’t debate like that though. Basically, if someone really strongly identifies with something and you argue against it, it just reinforces it for them. They’ll double down.

If somehow, you actually manage to convince them otherwise, typically they’ll shift resentment towards you for changing it. If it’s something that is part of their identity.

They’re also going to engage in motivated reasoning, people do this whenever they’re uncomfortable, so they’ll just make up some new reason, whether it’s good or not, because people argue emotionally, not logically. Which makes sense biologically, sense something logical may not be in your best interest. But when it comes to convincing someone of something, it’s annoying.

So… they’re always going to be at a disadvantage, because the anti-side’s arguments aren’t strong. Their best bet at a counter argument is a slippery slope, “The population levels.” argument. Which is also an argument from ignorance, because neither party knows what the future will bring.

But, when the chips are down, they can always try to inflict suffering by bringing up the Ion interview in a particularly caustic way.

So the thing you should know, is that you’re probably not going to change their mind. So… you just change your audience. You can’t change their mind, but you can change the mind of someone undecided that’s reading this. So still argue with them. Just, don’t expect there to be any results from the debate.

and be kind, we’re better off winning sympathy from the devs anyways.

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

Yes, that is the scientific conclusion, I have reached.

I agree.

However, I think the High Elf threads show that there are people who care about both.

I actually like the Void Elf thing for my characters that are supposed to be struggling with dark things. But I don’t think very many Void Elf players are trying to be struggling with the dark.

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

But I don’t think very many Void Elf players are trying to be struggling with the dark.

No, most are into being pretty and playing with tentacles.

[Xenøphøntes-cenarius]

That is pretty much what I do. I dont argue to convince her. From her first post before I replied i knew this person was a lost cause. When they were appealing to authority as a defense i knew exactly what they were. I am just hoping people on the fence read it and see their points are invalid.

I am actually studying in political science currently so debating people is something I do regularly and man I’ve debated people about real issues in the world and havn’t been fallacy bombed as hard as this person has to me.

[Fyrebusche-wyrmrest-accord]

Maybe you can find Papa Ion down there in the anti-helf thread so you can sit by his lap.

maybe later. im heading out for the day. i talked with callistus about the sc in this thread or lydons, look for those responses to see how easy it is to dismantle the SC as anything significant, ciao

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

Maybe you can find Papa Ion down there in the anti-helf thread so you can sit by his lap.

You really need to calm down and watch your tone, you’re starting to be very rude in your posting.

[Somand-proudmoore]

You need to calm down

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

I’m going to see Godzilla in about 3 hours, you cannot stop my excitement.

[Xenøphøntes-cenarius]

its hard to keep a cool head when i get fallacy bombed to oblivion. I dont like dishonest arguments from dishonest actors. It is one of very few things that actually irk me IRL.

[Renotarshil-malganis (Renotarshil)]

its hard to keep a cool head when i get fallacy bombed to oblivion.

Then maybe internet forums are not the best place for you, especially here in the GD of the WoW forums.

[Nindraine-moon-guard (Nindraine)]

So the thing you should know, is that you’re probably not going to change their mind. So… you just change your audience. You can’t change their mind, but you can change the mind of someone undecided that’s reading this. So still argue with them. Just, don’t expect there to be any results from the debate.

and be kind, we’re better off winning sympathy from the devs anyways.

One thing I try to remind myself of is that I’m not necessarily trying to convince the people I’m arguing against. If they feel strongly enough to argue so regularly, they probably aren’t going to change their minds anywaay.

On the bright side, they also have no decision making power in the game, so that’s no loss there.

The people I am trying to convince are the devs - writers and designers who are looking for ideas of interest to the community they can implement and players can enjoy.

And I think the creative energy going into the pro-High Elf side of things far outweighs the negative energy going into the against side anyway, but we’ve also got to make sure that that productive, creative energy remains positive too.

As members advocating for an idea, it’s our responsibility to do it in a mature, responsible and productive way. I think the devs are far more likely to want to engage with mature, constructive discussion with well formulated ideas. We have to be better than some of (not all, but certainly some) the members who oppose us.

[Somand-proudmoore]

I dont like dishonest arguments from dishonest actors.

This is why I avoid arguing with certain posters. Just ignore them, even if they reply to you. What they say is wrong anyway.

[Xenøphøntes-cenarius]

I think ill be alright. LIke i said before in the other post. The anti-helf position is incredbily unpopular compared to the pro-helf one. People like that guy who argue dishonestly are so few in number. I just wish they would keep to their failing post.

[Lorithyn-agamaggan (Lorithyn)]

Even if Blizz is internally dead set on never adding High Elves they’d never come out and say it, so we’ll never have a definitive “no”

But yeah, quoting Ion is an appeal to authority. If I were arguing politics and cited to the bible to support my arguments then my position has fallen flat, as my opponent may not believe in the authority to which I’m citing. Ion may be the lead director, but his position is not permanent nor does he speak for every dev at Blizz, and who knows? Maybe he could be convinced on High Elves. Don’t forget, it was Ion who said, “Anything is possible in the future”

Remember T&E’s video on High Elves? At the very end they shared a clip of Ion from 2014 talking about the potential for sub races, and he threw out High Elves as an example. The topic of High Elves will likely never be over until they’re either added or the game shuts down

[Xenøphøntes-cenarius]

And I think the creative energy going into the pro-High Elf side of things far outweighs the negative energy going into the against side anyway, but we’ve also got to make sure that that productive, creative energy remains positive too.

As members advocating for an idea, it’s our responsibility to do it in a mature, responsible and productive way. I think the devs are far more likely to want to engage with mature, constructive discussion with well formulated ideas. We have to be better than some of (not all, but certainly some) the members who oppose us.

Yeah no if you look at all my previous posts prior I have definately kept positive. Its my fault for even engaging this person ill admit, but I just feel that letting dishonest actors say dishonest things hurts us just as much as we try to help ourselves.