They will share a lockout when they share loot.
They won’t share a lockout when they’re current… but they also won’t share loot when they’re current.
Where did they announce that?
just making stuff up to be mad at now?
I’m going to have to watch some videos to find where I heard that. I’ll edit this later when I have time.
Regardless, even if they do not share a lockout, moving the loot to 10 man still kills 25 mans. The loot is no longer special. Ulduar 25 man hard mode items and mounts are not easy to get, even in ICC gear. Moving that loot to 10 man devalues it.
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It’s still twice as many chances at the loot per week so people will take it.
Thinking on it more I kind of hope this only exists for when Ulduar is current. Because when Ulduar came out they didn’t really add any good catchup systems.
But when ToC and ICC came out they did add relatively strong catchup systems, so moving Ulduar loot (or at least hard mode loot) doesn’t seem to align with their other Ulduar changes like you said.
Or, if they do keep updating it I don’t think it should ever include the hard mode gear, those stay in the raids. For both Ulduar and ToC.
No, the vast majority would not. Ulduar 25 is quite a bit harder than Ulduar 10. And that’s before considering the logistics of finding an extra 15 people + the right amount of healers.
You aren’t just going to slap together a pug for Ulduar 25 hard modes. You can for the 10 man though because it’s much easier.
Thinking on it more I kind of hope this only exists for when Ulduar is current. Because when Ulduar came out they didn’t really add any good catchup systems.
But when ToC and ICC came out they did add relatively strong catchup systems, so moving Ulduar loot (or at least hard mode loot) doesn’t seem to align with their other Ulduar changes like you said.
I agree. If this change only applies to Naxx, and not to the later raid tiers, then I could live with it. It’s definitely NOT in the spirit of classic, but it also wouldn’t interfere with the meat of WotLK.
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I’m not sure if I’m in favour of Heroic+ or not. I like the idea of it and I think it does fill a gap that’s there, but I too wonder about how catch up is going to work. I think that when Ulduar comes out, this does offer a good catch up mechanic. Players can, presumably, go through Normal → Heroic → Heroic+ (getting Naxx gear) → Ulduar. It feels smooth and sensible. However, what about when ToC and even ICC comes out. The difficulty bump will leave a gap in its wake and it’s not really clear what people are supposed to do there.
Did OG WotLK have a catchup mechanic? I actually don’t remember… so even if there’s a difficulty bump here it’s not terribly different than before, which has me mostly ambivalent about this change. But again, if this is the case, what purpose does this serve?
All this to say, I guess I need more information about what they want to do here before I can decide whether or not I support this change.
Well it sounds like they’re going to see how it plays out in Ulduar before they decide what they’ll do about ToC.
But they did flip on nerfing ToC ilvl and are instead buffing Ulduar items so that’s nice.
Did OG WotLK have a catchup mechanic? I actually don’t remember… so even if there’s a difficulty bump here it’s not terribly different than before, which has me mostly ambivalent about this change. But again, if this is the case, what purpose does this serve?
ToC brings new a dungeon with 200 ilvl epics (Naxx 10 quality). ICC brings new dungeons with 232 ilvl epics (better than most original Ulduar gear). Ulduar does not bring any new dungeons or catch-up mechanics.
If heroic+ is limited to Naxx only, then I could live with it… I still think it’s lame though.
The catchup mechanics back in the day were badge gear, they released new dungeons with ToC and ICC(but not Ulduar for some reason) and of course just running the older raids which were pugged frequently.
They released a new set of badge gear with ulduar, so there was that, but yeah no new dungeons.
I believe heroic trial of the champion was 219 actually, making it quite good as a catchup and on par with Ulduar-10 gear similar to how the ICC 5 mans dropped 232 which was the same as ToC10.
Ah ok, so the new dungeons offered higher ilvl which could get you there. Heroic+ might fill that in more, but I still have questions about how it will be in the long term. That actually does complicate it a bit haha.
So in ICC, to be ready for raiding, do you run (in order)…
- Normal launch WotLK Dungeons, then
- Heroic launch WotLK Dungeons, then
- ToC Dungeons, then
- ICC Dungeons, then
- Heroic+ Dungeons, then
… you are now ready to raid ICC?
When ICC was open, back in original WotLK, you would pick up a few PvP pieces and then go straight to the ICC dungeons. Normal dungeons and heroics were dead content outside of the daily by that point.
Heroic+ will be dead content by that point if it only drops Naxx10 quality gear… with the added downside of siphoning geared players into heroic+ for their daily, rather than doing heroics with the fresh alts.
The only way heroic+ remains relevant in ICC is if the gear is updated every patch. Which I don’t like for all of the reasons above.
I see, so one could consider the value in Heroic+ to be a reason to continue to do dungeons throughout the expansion since it will drop previous tier loot. It does seem like a meh upgrade path, but it’s not really terribly different than it was before I guess.
I don’t know if it will. If this is based on my comment above, that was only to mean that the progression made sense in Ulduar when Naxx was the previous tier. I wouldn’t expect it to stop at Naxx, I would expect it to upgrade every tier.
They haven’t confirmed they’ll carry on the heroic+ past ulduar release. But assuming they do you’ll just be mixing those in with pugging the older raids.
That’s fair. In general we just don’t really know what their intentions are. I think we need more info lol.
It’s very different, actually. The ICC and ToC dungeons drop unique items. The game was designed around those dungeons dropping those particular items. They fit in the lore.
Moving raid items to dungeons is just lame.
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If the lore of those items is something that’s important to you, I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t like them spontaneously dropping from a dungeon. I’m not sure if I agree or not yet, but I can appreciate your perspective.