Heroic+ - Why?

[Gardes-azuresong]

So, this change is essentially to compensate lack of RDF?

[Misanthra-old-blanchy]

I see it as a potential door to RDF.

Since once the “elite” have their really good loot in thse dungeons…they can RDF normal/heroic (regular) . And it not be an issue.

Just like retail. the LFG users of the “good” dungeons could not give a rat’s butt about what us pug scrubs do in LFD.

hell…they come in and run them too for the easy clears on callings/weekly quests. 3 gods/goddesses of WOW, 2 scrubs…the dungeon still gets steamrolled. Calling complete…pay me!

Edit: some would say aww…you get carried then.

1. I don’t ask for the mythic runner to be in the run. THEY chose lfd, I didn’t make em.

2. scrub in my case was 7/7 honor gear some conquest pieces. mid level entry PVP BIS kind of, not PVE.

[Chibinim-pagle]

The reason is so you don’t have to do 2 difficulties of the same raid every single week because 25man has better weapons/trinkets/tier but 10man has better offhands/shields/accessories.

I actually really like the idea of keeping dungeons relevant by adding the 10man loot to them instead of having to have yet another raid night dedicated to doing the same thing i just did on 25man.

[Flaithbás-mankrik]

I’ve literally already posted the date my sub runs out. Did you think this was some sort of gotcha?

[Sepphy-burning-blade]

at the expense of raids.

[Morenna-pagle]

Not really… 10 man will drop 25 man loot (which is higher ilvl than what will be dropping in H+). They haven’t said what 25 man will drop since 10 gets the gear. Running Naxx 10 will still offer the better gearing up rewards.

[Discoballs-maladath]

I’m all for it. Wrath 2009 is forever gone. I don’t need to relive that.

[Axewipe-jom-gabbar]

This is it right here.

Another thread made a great point that Ulduar 25 remains difficult throughout all of WotLK, even in ICC gear. Doubly so if it remains in the pre-nerf state. Those items are special. You know someone is in a good guild when you see them with those items and that mount.

But, now we’re going to devalue those items by moving the 25-man loot table to the 10 man version with the very next patch? This defeats the purpose of raising Ulduar item levels in the first place!

We were trying to keep Ulduar relevant with the item level changes… but now we’re making it irrelevant with heroic+

[Versz-stormrage]

@Axewipe-jom-gabbar

Geared players will want to do harder dungeons with other geared players. They won’t group with fresh alts. But this extra difficulty significantly reduces the pool of players for normal and heroic dungeons. The geared players will do heroic+ for their dailies etc instead of the easier heroic.

You know what solves that problem? Cross realm rdf.

[Axewipe-jom-gabbar]

Definitely not a “solution” - DPS queues for a normal or heroic on retail right now are an hour-plus.

[Versz-stormrage]

Because there probably isn’t many left on retail atm. Either in Wrath pre patch or waiting for DF. When my regular tank isn’t on and I throw my key in group finder, sometimes takes 15 min to get a single tank to q in.

[Rictus-amanthul]

It’s a good change, I welcome it

[Sanctitty-area-52]

One of the aspects of the classic series (and original versions of those expansions) I really appreciate is specific drops that you have to run specific content to get. I mean I get why they did it. It’s just a catchup mechanic really, but I can’t help but wonder if it’s a necessary evil or just another small dose of poison that will eventually kill the game.

Remember that live didnt get to its current state all at once, it was systems and tweaks added over the years which eventually completely neutered the game experience.

[Zalika-faerlina]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

And RDF eliminates the carry meta

no one gives a sweet mary and joseph F about dungeons.

People were selling carries in wrath and RDF won’t stop gdkps and carries, and boosts and whatever keeps you up at night.

[Axewipe-jom-gabbar]

It comes at the expense of raids because the 25 mans are no longer relevant.

Why would anyone do the hard modes in Ulduar 25 man - which are SIGNIFICANTLY harder than Ulduar 10 man hard modes - when both raids drop the same loot?

You can say “well 25 man will drop more loot, say 6 pieces per 25 people instead of 2 pieces per 10 people” - That’s what they did in Cataclysm. Didn’t matter. 25 man raiding was still dead.

I think we went through a lot of effort to keep Ulduar relevant throughout the expansion (pre-nerf Ulduar, increasing item levels, etc) and now we’re undoing all of those great changes with the heroic+ system.

[Morenna-pagle]

They won’t drop the same loot when they are current.

[Axewipe-jom-gabbar]

Okay. But they will when they are NOT current.

Again, we just put in a lot of effort to try and keep Ulduar relevant during ToC and ICC via increased item levels in Ulduar. We are undoing all of that work and then some with heroic+

[Morenna-pagle]

Ok, if it’s something you don’t like then I can accept that. I just still think it is strange to be mad over being given an extra option, but to each their own.

[Axewipe-jom-gabbar]

You have less options though. Instead of choosing between dungeons, 10 man raids, and 25 man raids to catch up your character, you will choose between only dungeons and 10 man raids.

We went through exactly this in Cataclysm. No one bothers with 25 man raids when 10 mans give the same loot.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Axewipe-jom-gabbar

You have less options though. Instead of getting to choose between dungeons, 10 man raids, and 25 man raids to catch up your character, you will choose between only dungeons and 10 man raids.

We went through exactly this in Cataclysm. No one bothers with 25 man raids when 10 mans give the same loot.

That was because they shared a lock out so people had to choose one and 10 man was the obvious choice, 10/25 won’t share a lockout in Wrath.