No one is crapping on 2h and its return.
I mean look, its just another post of you guys trying to discredit what people say based on absolutely nothing.
You do know that we 3 that you lump together arent against 2h, and we have been right a lot of the time.
None of you have been silenced, but the people complaining about us 3 with false claims have admitted to flagging or wanting to silence us because they dont like a different opinion.
Minor correction. Magicke very much is against it.
Alright then, 2 of us.
I personally have never meaninglessly flagged you or the Classic player (trying to avoid names). While the two of you are in plain denial about a great many things, you’re definitely not trolls. And there are several things we do agree on if I recall correctly from our exchanges about the Shadowlands cinematic, to a point where you even corrected me on details about lore that I got wrong.
On the subject of “discrediting” people, here’s my take on it: It’s not that you are being ousted from the discussion for having a low item level or not playing currently playing the game. There is a point of conflict when people like me are advocating for having a game concept restored to my specialization, but players that don’t even use the spec and people that barely even qualify as casuals come out of the woodworks just to fly-swat the supporters that want something that is completely skew to their existence in the game. I am not going to accept some Unholy main chiming in about what Frost shouldn’t have and laughing about it, as certain people in these threads have consistently done. Do you see me in the Unholy threads telling people why they shouldn’t have their old DoTs and abilities back? The ones that made their spec fun? And then laughing about it? No, I support specializations having the richest possible subject matter to provide extraordinary flavor to the gameplay, because that is what makes the gameplay fun and versatile. So when others come in just fly-swat, which I ultimately don’t think you or the Classic player are trying to do - no matter how much I might have indicated that suspicion - yeah those people are going to get met with hostility and intolerance because that is exactly what they are bringing to the discussion when they just drop in to tell us that we shouldn’t have 2H.
This is essentially a No True Scotsman fallacy. You’re setting arbitrary boundaries on who’s opinion matters. Just because someone isn’t playing much at this current time, doesn’t mean that they won’t invest more time in the future, or that their opinions have any less validity to them purely based on current investment.
Speaking for myself, I stepped down from mythic raiding a few weeks into BfD and have played quite casually since due to several expansion design decisions really turning me off and making most of the game’s current content unenjoyable. Shadowlands has promised to get rid of at least two of these big ticket issues I’ve had, so I will almost certainly be back to playing full time, as it were, and likely at least raiding casually come release. So discussions about potential spec design very much matter to me, even if I don’t appear to be overly present in the game at present.
I understand your frustration with a purely spiteful player coming into things, but that isn’t the majority of what’s going on with dissenters, or people who don’t fully agree with every 2H Frost post.
The thing is other people that label themselves as 2h supporters also don’t agree with your view on how to bring it back or what they even want to see. Some don’t care about dps but want the option, some just want a visual, some want a playstyle split from what we have now that created balance issues since they pull from the same ability pool while also having those abilities do different things based on weapon. Some want DW to just be outright removed or shifted somewhere else.
While all I want is a fun spec because that is objectively the most important thing since it is what you do the majority of the time. pick any class or spec and what you do the majority of the time is fight mobs or other players. Blizzard might not want pvp to just be “haha obliterate spam” like what it seems so many people want. There was as much skill involved with that as there was with blood in Cata with vengeance stacking.
Do you think that maybe there is a reason some of us don’t play the spec? What about the other 2h supporter posts that you like that also don’t play the spec and have claimed not to play it since the end of WoD when they were forced into a weapon set. Their views should be just as invalid since they don’t play it but since they align with you then it’s fine. That’s the problem when you look at ilvl or if someone plays currently because you then eliminate the voices that are also on your side. But like I have said multiple times, it’s not like I haven’t played it in BFA. It’s a junk spec, which is not the fault of the weapon set, it’s spec design on what the devs wanted.
You are also talking about a spec in the past, but somehow not playing now means I can’t comment on something during a time I did play? Not to mention the thing that we agree on is the current spec design is a shadow of its former self. That kind of throws a wrench in the whole “you don’t play right now” argument doesn’t it?
You don’t have to accept what an unholy main says, but they don’t have to accept what you say either. See the problem is while there are some trying to look at the real issues, even in threads that are about the spec, people derail it into a 2h fanatic fan fest. Insults and so on. It even happened in this very thread even though it was about a video, when talking about the video what happened? Derailed by the OP.
And realistically at this point 2h supporters have to sit the waiting game because Blizzard has acknowledged it and said “we would like to, but we have to figure out a way to do it.” Going through what they want, that will be along the lines of keeping DW and 2h as close to identical as possible so all they have to do is turn as few dials to keep things balanced. So say need to bring up obliterate overall they just have to do one turn of the wheel and be done with it. They don’t want to spend a lot of time on balance when they could be putting their time into something that multiple people can enjoy.
Obligatory: Text wall
This alone isn’t what I am referring to. The key word I use is “fly-swatting”, which means opposing something just because, with no intent to have any discussion about it. No, that is not the majority of people in favor of DW. It’s only a couple of people that decided to come in and cause problems by being hostile and trolling. You can really tell the difference in the atmosphere of the threads when those people aren’t around.
The instance is which I would bring this up is when somebody doesn’t play the game or the spec but is trying to tell me what I am or am not experiencing in real time. Like I have people trying to tell me that Frost is meta is PvP, but when I do any sort of PvP, if I get trained then the only thing I’m doing is spamming Death Strike because the damage output from other classes is just mechanically faster than mine.
I’m not telling Unholy mains anything. They’re telling me what my spec should have. I don’t tell Unholy mains what to want or what they shouldn’t have.
Yeah and they too need to stop with the name-calling and finger-pointing because that doesn’t help the discussion at all. Easy as it is to resort to the “with me or against me” instincts.
That’s what Frost is right now. It’s just that the repetition is broken by the occasional Rime proc and Runic Power sink with Frost Strike. There’s nothing wrong with having one ability be the center of a spec. If it’s a theatrical, hilarious, and/or fun thing to spam, then that is all that matters. Just like it’s fun spamming Chaos Bolts during Destro burst and just removing players from reality with the HP chunking.
When did Blizzard mention this?
Yes, he and all of his other characters that he uses to like his own posts are indeed very much against it.
It was in another thread. If there was a link I didn’t check it. But if the OP of that thread is telling the truth then blizzard knows about it and it’s something they would like to do.
I don’t pvp, at least not anymore, so I can’t say what it’s like, but I would assume that it’s like any other class/spec that needs others to prop them up. I was also referring to WoD, though it wasn’t clear, where people just wanted fat meaty obliterate crits in pvp. If you just have to use one ability it’s not really involved. It’s why I gave the example of blood in Cata. There were videos of blood doing 2’s alone and destroying any melee comp they went up against and outdamage everyone while not dying. Any frost spec could not hold a candle to it in a duel or a lot of other areas unless they ignored the blood dk. In fact I killed so many frost dk’s as blood even ones that were more geared than I was, straight out of leveling and into pvp without trying to get the better gear and just chunked people out. It was absolutely stupid and nerfed later in the expansion but every pvp tank was. It needed a nerf though.
The dk class, according to mythic raiders is actually looking to be quite good in the next raid, blood being the best tank from their standpoint.
I just want to play frost and a better playstyle. That’s really it. I don’t care if 2h comes back or not, but I also don’t want the spec to be dragged down with mechanics that make it a nightmare to balance. There has got to be a middle ground somewhere and a lot of people shut that down before a conversation is even had.
Say me or Monkiy point out a problem, rather than attempt to solve it what is said? You 2 are the same person, you 2 like each other’s posts, which I might have liked maybe 1 post in its entirety, or you are just anti 2h, or you don’t play, or lol look at your ilvl. People just want a 1 sided discussion if it has anything to do with 2h. Make a spec about the spec, it becomes a thread about 2h in the next post.
For the most part it’s not even DW vs 2h, it’s just 2h or gtfo a lot of times. And I think if that’s the case then delete most of the 2h threads and just mash them all into one. This one should be deleted since it was derailed in post number 3 and look what it is now.
I’ve been hoping mods would merge them into a megathread for a while now. It’s exhausting hopping back and forth between different threads of the same exact topic.
Well, I don’t think the OP’s made the threads for DW vs 2H discussions. They seem to have made the posts to express an opinion on wanting 2H back. As a result, the “2H or die” mentality is going to be natural in these threads. As much as we should avoid it.
I wasn’t the one that perpetuated that rumor so I really don’t know what to say other than it should be pretty obvious from the language mannerisms that you two aren’t the same.
Threads about Frost spec itself don’t get any traction. I myself made one at least one thread about I thought the spec was just a caster but it died instantly. Every 2H threads get bombarded with views and replies though. I think this is just reflective of the level of importance that players place on the weapon playstyle that they wanted, as opposed to the way their general spec works. It makes sense, because Frost isn’t bad on damage itself. It is just slow, boring, and far too dependent on procs and DPS windows.
The other thread did, the op wanted to talk about the spec and the very next post was basically “screw the spec I want 2h” something that the op stated he didn’t want. It still got traction since people were talking about the spec except for just 2h fanatics.
I think it’s pretty clear too that we aren’t the same, doesn’t stop people from saying it over and over. They point at likes as the source and I don’t like anyone’s post so it’s really just a big fabrication used to annoy and derail at this point.
its not coming back like 2hd enhance you understand they have to change the loot table for the rng lootbox for that right?
that takes work and by how shadowlands is we know they are very lazy.
Never thought about loot tables either or even loot boxes. I do agree that Blizzard is Lazy though and no one should be surprised if all they do is add blood tap back in, plague strike, icy touch and raise dead and call it a job well done.
i would not ask for someone who is a gardener or a Lawyer about astrophysics over an astrophysicist, if the gardener or the lawyer did study or have read some books about it, they could sure have some understanding/opinion regardless they not being an expert, its not rly an entire nonsense of logic to be used.
And just by a quick armory search we can see that someone didn’t play much at all not rly this time or not much, just saying
we literally had 4 people who were constantly antagonizing the 2H idea, one way or another, and 2 are the ones who don’t even play the spec, so, the logic still counts
what do you think they are doing with shamans?giving healing stream and searing totems back and then shocks back across all specs and calling it a day…like you said lazy.
dont expect much for dk’s.
Those arent even comparable. Astrophysics is some advanced stuff, and here we are just talking about abilities and the interactions they have with each other.
Just by reading them you can get enough information to make a well informed guess or assumption on how that works. I mean how many people that actually played knew that the abilities were entirely based off of attack power now that was informed by someone that doesnt play currently.
Not to mention that many people that even bought the “you dont play/your ilvl is low” or anything else like that only have a higher ilvl. Some havent even stepped foot into a raid on the character they are posting on or even in the past.
That is what people were trying to point out that its pretty hypocritical and just outright dismissive and a way to shut down a discussion when they themselves havent really done much of anything either. I dont want to put out names, but looking up the people that started the whole “you dont play thing” which was addressed at the time, didnt have m+ done either except for one person.
And no one was antagonizing the 2h idea. There is a difference between disagreeing with not wanting MotFW to come back in how it was designed creating sub specs, which created balance problems, and not saying 2h is a stupid idea. Not to mention with how the abilities are based off of attack power, they can now make the playstyle ANYTHING. You want meaty obliterate crits? They can do that pretty easily, its just that it will happen for both weapon sets. Is that a big deal?
Here is an exorcise. Create the spec of what you want to see out of it and completely ignore the weapon set. Dont even put a weapon in it, just say what you want from the spec. Dont say big 2h oblit crits, just say big oblit crits as an example. After you created that then just toss both weapon sets on it and wala, problem solved. If you say it doesnt solve it then say why it doesnt if you make the spec people like first, and then toss the weapons on it afterwards.
There doesnt need to be 2 separate playstyles is the point that at least I was making.
Thats why the spec is so important. You dont need all this complex stuff going on with how the abilities work and are calculated right now.
So what, you probably want a different option than BoS, you want Oblit to be back in the forefront so it doesnt get overtaken by Howling Blast and mastery, less damage on passives like FF and auto attacks and more on button presses… am I at least within that ballpark? If so, I agree. The only thing would be one weapon set would deliver the damage in 1 hit, the other would be 2 hits due to the weapon they are using.
Would that not work? If not again… why? Do you want 2h to be special? Just hate DW that much? Dont think it would work, and if so why? Is it that bad that DW hits as much as 2h? It was going on in Wrath and there wasnt any complains then.
You dont need obliterate to do 2 separate things based on weapon selected, you dont need a talent to choose your weapon, you dont need MotFW when everything can be solved with spec design. They literally can make it anything. They can make Frost Strike do 1000% attack power as frost damage, make Obliterate do 2% attack power as physical damage. That is the point. Its a simple solution unless you just want to make it more complicated for “reasons”.
This topic doesn’t require being an expert to have an opinion on it. This is not expert testimony with severe consequences to consider. I think you got a bit carried away with your analogy.
BFA should show how lazy they were when they didnt bake in some artifact traits that were kind of important in the function of specs.
Oof, Kelliste you really wall o’text it sometimes.
shadowlands isnt going to be much different just look at the covenant abilities and class covenant abilities.
shadowlands going to be a crap show.