I’m glad Hazzed made this video here and would like to share it with you guys. Even though the truth of how badly DW Frost is doing hurts a lot here, I’m glad he’s pointing that out, and how removing 2h Frost is no longer an excuse too. I really hope with him that we get 2h Frost back, and that Frost is no longer the magic Rouge-like trash it’s been reduced to, nerf after nerf. Hoping for the best either way, and suffer well fellow 2h Frosties.
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This video is really all over the place. He talks about the past and a supposed future implementation of 2H Frost in the present tense the entire time, with definitive “is better” statements that don’t really make sense when they’re almost entirely presumptuous. And he makes those transitions from comparing the past to an assumed future seamlessly, with no indication, in the same sentence multiple times like he isn’t actually thinking it through, or realising that he’s doing it. I feel like he rambled this video off without a full script, or double-checking himself.
The majority of his video “comparison” hinges on the assumption that we’d be getting the exact same failed design of a ToT/MotFW balancing act if 2H Frost was added back, even though he fails to acknowledge changes since their removal or changes that would have to come with adding it back in, while still using some of those changes to fuel his stance.
For example, he says that dual-wield is worse because it would have to use Runic to fuel Death Strike (he even mistakenly says “pump out Frost Strikes for self healing”) and not use Frost Strike nukes, all while talking about and comparing 2H Frost burst in WoD in the first clip. Even though Death Strike cost Runes in WoD, and even though Frost Strike isn’t our nuke now unless we get ToT/MotFW and Killing Machine changes, and that even now Death Strike costing Runic doesn’t come at the cost of our nuke hit being Obliterate without said changes.
He’s either intentionally, or unintentionally, confusing and mixing elements of the past and present to suit his narrative, or he’s intentionally assuming a ton without ever acknowledging those things. Regardless, it’s a hot mess, and much less of a “breakdown” and more of a fantasy.
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Ugh, not you again… I was really hoping someone else would respond here…
But I saw you on all those posts before, and the walls of texts you and Kelliste made me think you’re trying to shut us 2h Frosties down. And I don’t believe either of you with so many outdated excuses and whatever you all try to scrounge up to stop us from trying to ask Blizz for 2h Frost to come back. And besides, 2h Frost fits the fantasy of a Death Knight much more than DW Frost, so I wish we either never had DW, or could use a shield instead of another sword. I’m so tired of hearing you both trying so hard to shut us down anyway. So please leave if you only seek to shut me and the other 2h Frost supporters down.
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My entire post was about the video you shared. I mentioned nothing of my opinions from other threads, or topics.
You can leave your bias at the door, or not participate on the forums if you don’t like to hear opinions on the very topics you start.
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Here you are again thinking we are trying to shut down 2h frost. I for one have given ways to bring it back since its pretty clear that MotFW didnt work out.
Even Monkiy, I think, has just been pointing out the issues with wanting the separation of the 2 weapon types and that is really it.
Your arguments arent even addressing anything since we havent taken the stance of “2h should never come back”. We dont like misinformation, we rather have good information out there so that everyone can actually work on getting a better spec.
Like I said to other people, if you removed DW right now and make it 2h, it would still suck. Its just a weapon, just like DW are just weapons. I actually like DW for frost since its a change, but not once have I said that Frost SHOULDNT have it, its just that the issues that caused its removal shouldnt come back.
We also arent rogue like just because of 2 weapons. Rogues are stabby stabby, and we are slashy slashy. Frost, aside from Fury, is in the berserker type of direction.
The video is a mess though, and ultimately it could be a 10 second video of “the current playstyle of frost isnt good and needs to be fixed”. That is really the summary of the video.
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Outlaw is pretty slashy slashy.
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And it’s pirate themed and pulls out a gun right? Not really related to the berserker type theme.
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Frost DKs were not SUPPOSED to be Berserkers originally though. And besides, being slow with quick attacks looks pretty stupid for a Death Knight honestly. If some guys want quick attacks, then they should be quick on their feet too to keep up and land all those fast attacks. But we Frost DKs can’t even keep up normally. And besides, the theme of Frost fits MUCH better when it was slow like a glacier, but hits like a truck. And not the puny stabby stab while relying on magic spam like a Frost mage and Unholy DK like it was ever since Legion.
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Then what’s with icy talons and frost having 30% attack speed with unholy presence that also granted move speed? They were anti, mobility though and still are in that regard so you are wrong there.
You never played wrath did you. That expansion alone defeats the slow hard hitting argument. The resource system was faster and DW obliterates hit for around 25k without str weapons around the same crits that 2h blood pot out.
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Seriously, can you guys let other people respond. You guys are spaming every single 2h frost thread.
We get it. Other people have opinions too.
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No one is stopping you, go ahead. The way you put it is like we are at your computer smacking your hands. If you want to respond then respond. So what if we are responding and posting. It’s what you do on the forums.
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Respectfully, i enjoy reading a variety of opinions, just not you two telling everyone else how wrong they are or how they dont read your posts before responding, over and over.
I get it. You think youre right.
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Well its very clear that they dont. If they did then we wouldnt have to constantly repeat ourselves. Them stating that we are against 2h shows how disingenuous they are actually being since we arent.
People constantly respond to either of us with that in mind because a lot of people base their standing because of what other people say about us. Should we not respond in a public forum when people are talking about us?
There has nothing brought up showing us that we are wrong in what we are saying, in fact some people actually get better and accurate information that they can use for feedback. Like saying Obliterate is based on weapon damage for example. That statement is wrong and is actually based on Attack Power, so this idea that 2h is going to fix problems due to the higher weapon damage and “obliterate will hit hard like it used to” is just false. It will do the same thing.
Just look at Festering Strike and Obliterate, one uses 2h, one DW, the damage they do based on attack power is 120% for Obliterate and you factor in armor, and Festering Strike is 116% and you factor in armor. These 2 abilities when looking through logs hit for similar numbers.
To many people, just putting forward that information, means “no 2h” and they run with it because they have this mentality of you are either with or against my ideas. Right and left, my football team is better than yours type of mentality. But that isnt the case, its just putting forward correct information and that the spec is more important than what weapon you use. Weapon use is secondary, just like what the video was trying to say since he says “I dont care if its 2h or DW I just want a good spec”.
2h, again, is relatively easy to introduce since there is only really 3 issues that need to be addressed at a base level. Runeforge difference, KM proc amount, and DW crit mechanics. A 2h runeforge can be created with Fallen Crusader and Razorice which I brought up way back in Beta or even early BFA when 2h had a short time life. Combine those 2 runeforges into a single 2h runeforge for frost and that takes care of that issue. The KM proc amount can be solved in a few ways as well, either remove it, or just make DK proc it off of main hand only. It working off of main hand only doesnt solve it completely, but it will at least bring it into what I would think is acceptable numbers. And then DW crit mechanics. 2h has 2 different outcomes when rolling for crit, you either crit or you dont. For DW there are 4 outcomes. You crit with both weapons in terms of weapon strikes, both weapons dont crit, main hand crit alone, or offhand crit alone. Now I dont know how hard it would be to do, but they could make it have a single roll for DW per strike ability, meaning when you use Obliterate there is one roll for both weapons so you either crit with both or you dont.
2 of these point are actually new since instead of just complaining about not there being 2h, I have been thinking of ways to introduce it while not having separate playstyles bringing back the issues that brought about its eventual removal.
That is what people should be doing since it takes away work that Blizzard would have to do, aka the brainstorming process, and work on actually implementing it.
What does further statements of “we want 2h” actually do? They know people want it sooo what now? What are people going to do to try to help Blizzard actually bring it back? Not to mention the majority of the complaints actually come down to Frost being just a bad spec, some even suggesting an entire redesign like Trumpknight has done. How they think a redesign should happen, who knows, but the overall agreement between me and people who say im against 2h (which again im not) is that the core of the spec should be the strongpoint and not on talents, or other external systems. Talents should supplement the core of the spec, not the other way around. Of course there should be some twists and turns, but having a weak core spec due to say BoS, hurts people leveling prior to level 100 for example.
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Ima go out on a limb here and say blizz has likely thought of many solutions to it. They removed options so they could balance easier and it’s ironic, they’ve done jack with it and have left specs to be complete garbage because one of the classes specs is competitive.
Really i just dont think blizzard cares. Pvp community has been asking for pvp venders for almost 4 years and the only thing the devs have to say is, “we are letting things develop organically.”
Unless something within blizzard changes. I dont see anything to ACTUALLY fix this crap shoot of a game we have atm.
But you cant have a lazy Blizz and also have them work to go through possible solutions. I just think they were lazy and havent done anything because they never had too because they stuck to their position but that position proved to be a liability instead of a boon since people fled from the game.
Now the yare trying to get people back, though it doesnt sound like they are going to do much at all aside from some class spells coming back.
I still dont think it helps to just say “I want 2h bring it back” when that has been doing on for 4 years. 2 of which it couldnt, but it still didnt stop people from saying it over and over.
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Until i hear that there is no AP (our current neck, artifact weapons, azurite gear) I wont believe they’ve learned anything. They are in this mindset that giving us borrowed power and balancing our specs around this power is a good idea. Then they take it away, the classes feel empty and unfinished until theu bring in our new borrowed power.
The devs are like this game, shadows of what they use to be. I hope for a breath of fresh air with shadowlands. I want specs to be flushed out, i want them to work at the core, i would like options to all classes again regarding weapon choices (see sword and board for war/pally), i want to have fun again in pvp (give us venders) and pve.
What i expect is more of the same, more borrowed power, More rng gearing, more unbalanced classes.
Heres to hoping folks.
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Boy have I got some news for you.
We don’t want there to be an infinitely grindable system like Artifact Power or Azerite.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295991/wow-shadowlands-anima-power-soulbinding-no-infinite-grind-of-anima
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People are definitely tired of RNG. i dont think there is really anything wrong with say Artifacts as long as there is an end, like say a talent system that you complete before your first raid and that is it.
The sad part is they have more developers now than in the past and it was much better in the past.
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This gives me hope, i just hope we arent balanced around anima skills. Still, good on them.
Went from caring about the game to caring about the green.
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Sounds like it at least.
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