If demons can live on a shattered world, I imagine that forsaken can, too.
Yes it does. You’re delusional.
3 Likes
You’re the one that’s insinuating that Sylvanas want to live on a shattered world because she’s trying to destroy the one she’s living on.
Who’s delusional?
You’re provided no proof or nothing that even insinuates that she’s trying to destroy the planet.
10 Likes
I provided a story wherein Magni proves to her that he is neutral and she acknowledges it in her thoughts that he is so, when he divulges privileged information about the Alliance flying to the wound to begin healing it.
He tells her that mining Azerite will kill the planet. She acknowledges that he is correct and tells him that she will stop. She then sends him to Desolace.
Then she commands the Horde to continue and they do in fact continue.
Her actions prove what you will deny with your eyes closed and your ears plugged.
4 Likes
When?
Proof.
She had reason to believe that they were about to betray her. There was some that were even running straight for the other side. Her reasoning was even explained, that those who would come back would spread the sentiment of going back to the Alliance.
But he’s never shown a dislike for this particularly. Even if he has a problem with it I really doubt this is all about raising the dead Alliance.
The Alliance hasn’t stopped either.
Does that make Anduin evil?
What about Malfurion or Tyrande?
These characters aren’t evil, they are in war.
She likely doesn’t, but I don’t think it matters. Magni all by himself is pretty untrustworthy, and I would especially think so for the Warcheif of the Horde.
8 Likes
Lordaeron.
https://imgur.com/a/ocUaOYs
All undead have souls that are bound. There are skeletons in Lordaeron. They are not freed after the Battle for Lordaeron.
Whataboutism doesn’t absolve Sylvanas of her crimes.
It makes the act absolutely evil.
Are they even involved in mining Azerite?
I’m pretty sure all they care about is their dumb dead world stump.
This is an amazing logical fallacy. War is not a time where evil is excluded. War is a time where evil people act despicably evil.
Already provided canon proof that she absolutely does.
He is not.
Sylvanas acknowledges his trustworthiness in the text.
7 Likes
That attack was directed at the Alliance. Horde soldiers at the front lines will die anyway, so I don’t see how this is somehow a "mass murder’.
My point is that it obviously doesn’t matter, and that this is not some sort of crime.
If it was, the Alliance wouldn’t be doing it on a mass-scale.
War doesn’t justify evil actions, but sometimes there’s no other choice. In this case, mining Azerite before the Alliance is crucial, especially with the legitimate threat the Alliance poses against the Horde and it’s allies. The recent attack on the Vulpera and Dazar’Alor should spell it out.
Oh well.
She trusts him.
She’s gone after Azerite, a resource needed to defend against the Alliance. It hurts no one except Azeroth itself.
That’s clearly something you find offensive and evil for some reason. Despite everyone except Magni seeing this resource as something to be used, to gain from. Somehow that singles Sylvanas out as super evil makes sense to you it just doesn’t to me.
4 Likes
Because the second they’re out the front door, they turn on their blasters. That is calculated murder. I shouldn’t have to explain to you that you can avoid shooting your allies.
We do not. Sylvanas does.
They attack Horde and Alliance forces.
???
The canon fact is that the act is killing the planet. Just because the Alliance is doing it doesn’t mean that it “”“doesn’t count”""
Oh, ho. But she knows for a 150% fact that the Alliance was down for peace and wanted to heal the wound, thus completely destroying any necessity for war. She decided to lie to Magni, send him on his way, and continue with her selfish plans to help herself to the detriment to all living life on Azeroth as she intentionally and willfully kills the planet to kill all living races to swell the ranks of the Forsaken.
"All will serve death. All will serve me."
It kills everyone when Azeroth dies. Don’t be obtuse.
5 Likes
Technically, no. Sylvanas has not betrayed the Horde. Only because, the Warchief IS the Horde.
In spirit, yes. The Warchief has a responsibility to lead in such a manner as to look after the interests and welfare of the Horde. I think there is enough under her belt during her tenure as Warchief that one could argue she has violated the sacred trust of the position of Warchief, and thus betrayed the Spirit of what the Horde is.
5 Likes
“Someone in this area is mining Azerite! Put a stop to it!”
MEANWHILE
WQ allows you to mine the Azerite that the “enemies” were mining
9 Likes
No ammount of paranoid reasoning makes it any less of a betrayal, especially to those trying to return to Sylvanas’s side.
1 Like
Cuz WE need that Azerite to fuel our magical mcguffin amulet that will eventually save the world.
2 Likes
Never you mind that the Heart of Azeroth is empowering Azeroth.
2 Likes
?
I haven’t seen that at all.
I’ve seen the Horde running away from the Plague and being turned, but no skeletons attacking the Horde, all of them seemed to be attacking the Alliance to me.
I think this has more to do with Blizzard not thinking about it than Sylvanas being evil and wanting to kill Horde soldiers.
It’s not evil though.
It’s a very different situation than bombing the planet because there’s less certainty that it will survive. Sure, it’s a bit tedious taking that chance, but I don’t see it as evil.
No she didn’t and you have no proof of that.
I’m not being obtuse, I’m saying it’s not evil. Your view of evil is clearly different from mine, so stop trying to push your point of view as the absolute truth.
This falls more in line with how I see things. The things she does do things that are wrong and are not truly representative of Horde values. But throwing out the word Evil is just stupid imo.
It does.
Because that’s not what betrayal is.
8 Likes
I’d say she betrayed the Horde by starting this war.
After Stormheim, she was convinced the Alliance would eventually take her out if something drastic wasn’t done. The discovery of Azerite was a godsend for her as it allowed her to use it as an excuse to galvanize the entire Horde into trying to destroy the Alliance with the story that they were going to weaponize Azerite and use it to destroy them if the Horde didn’t do it first and destroy them instead.
Thing is there’s no evidence the Alliance had any plans to do so, at least not initially. If anything, they were worried that the Horde was doing that very thing considering they found the Goblins harvesting it as soon as it was discovered. And they were as the Battle for Undercity showcased with that massive Azerite powered tank Sylvanas threw at them.
In reality, Sylvanas was terrified of the final death she had richly earned for herself and as such thoroughly abused her power as Warchief to initiate a genocidal war not to protect the Horde, but to protect HERSELF.
She has no honor and has sent countless brave Horde soldiers to their deaths over a lie. In a perfect world, the Horde leadership should have stripped her of her title and banished both her and her people from the Horde after her genocidal decision to burn Teldrassil which was filled with innocents and dragging the entire Horde into a conflict it never should have been in.
2 Likes
And yet both sides continue to just use it to kill each other either via weapons or increased power level. Sylvanas ain’t the only one benefiting from AP.
Are you 100% sure about that?
3 Likes
She slaughtered them in cold blood and had NO WAY of knowing whether they actually would bring this sentiment back. She BETRAYED the Desolate Council, and betrays the Forsaken by keeping this information from them. They deserve to know and choose their own fate, not be prisoners to their own leader.
1 Like
She had good reason to believe they would.
She has shown little distrust with the Desolate Council until they showed signs of betrayal.
She can’t legally betray the Horde because the Warchief is the supreme, absolute authority of the faction.
But she acted against the Horde’s best interest by ignoring the impending death of the planet, killing her own Forsaken under the suspicion they might be disloyal, launching a war with an uncertain chance of winning, burning the Horde’s only win condition, and transgressing the moral and cultural values of various Horde races (including the Forsaken and freewill.)
That’s why people say she “betrayed” the Horde.
14 Likes
All you have to do is land next to a tauren, orc, or whatever skeleton.
The expansion has her willfully killing the planet, and you think when Blizzard specifically points out “She’s killing her own troops” that it’s unintentional?
Come on.
https://i.imgur.com/3bimeOz.png
Killing the planet is evil. Wanting to kill everyone to swell Forsaken forces is quadruple evil.
I absolutely do. I’ve even posted it in this thread. It’s in the Magni BTS excerpt I linked earlier.
Just because you refuse to accept it doesn’t mean that canon material is not canon. That’s the height of ignorance.
![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
4 Likes
My dear Maziodyne had a quote from The Spiral Path where a Forsaken asks to be released from her service and she lets him go. I can’t remember what thread it was in but maybe it will be quoted again. Look, I know BtS is canon but Golden went way overboard with trying to make Sylvanas the evilest dictator. We already knew she was an authoritarian, we didn’t need it so in your face. I’m just going to roll my eyes at all of this if it ends up just being the set up for an AR.
1 Like