Has Sylvanas betrayed the Horde yet?

How are we defining “betrayed”?

Has she directly acted against what she sees as the interests of the Horde? To the contrary, I think she is shown as acting ferociously in what she sees as the Horde’s best interests. It’s just that she’s a traumatized sociopath, so her understanding of “best interests” is kinda…different than what a sane person would think.

Is she de facto betraying the Horde in that her actions, regardless of motivation, are harming it? Yes, I think you can make a pretty good case for that.

I think you have to understand Sylvanas on the terms that Blizzard is selling: that she really does perceive the Alliance as an existential threat, and that she lacks a normal emotional range and so feels few compunctions about taking whatever actions she deems necessary. She’s also a narcissist, so she seldom if ever questions her own judgment. It’s a pretty toxic combination.

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https://www.wowhead.com/spell=130736/soul-reaper

Do you have a source on runeblades not consuming souls?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Runed_Soulblade

Strange name for a blade that doesn’t do its intended task.

It’s the defining feature of Valkyr. It’s how they’re introduced to us as the Forsaken’s saving grace.

You guys are still at it? :roll_eyes:

I think Sylvanas certainly turned her back on what Thrall had in mind when he put the Horde back together after leaving Lordaeron behind.
She screwed over her own soldiers by blighting them and turning them into mindless zombie minions.
She’s betraying what the Forsaken were originally all about when she tries to strip Derek Proudmoore of his free will.
She lied to her own champion by informing them they were to find Saurfang only to secretly tell her dark rangers to try and assassinate him.

Has she betrayed the Horde outright though?

Not yet.

So she isn’t any worse than the Death Knights for doing that…

Death Knights are monsters not in control of the horde.

Sylvanas is a monster who ordered the horde into a kill zone, then had them mass murdered, mass damned, and mass enslaved.

She is literally and metaphorically worse.

I wonder if Sylvanas actually helped us by raising skellys. I mean, if they are up and walking around, we don’t have to check if they are still alive while we are rescuing the injured and blighting the battlefield.
I don’t get the impression that Sylvanas sent people in, just so she could blight them and raise them. The alliance was overcoming the Azerite machine and the other defenders.
Sylvanas says to deploy the blight, but she didn’t say to do it recklessly. I for one, blighted the heck out of the battlefield, while rescuing the injured.

this is technically true because of two things:

  1. the institution of warchief being totalitarian
  2. blizzard writing everyone as too spineless to challenge her directly and instead sneaking behind the back of the horde to undermine her efforts.

Until one of these two thigns change, being anti-sylvanas is indeed anti-horde.

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While being anti-Garrosh was…?

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what do you mean “yet”?

Also anti-Horde, up until he started going after the other races. The big doofus probably coulda skated by if he just kept his Orc supremacy in his pants, much like how Sylvanas still has support because she goes after Alliance and she hasn’t punished entire races for their leader’s transgressions.

https://i.imgur.com/3JBTBBS.png
https://i.imgur.com/3bimeOz.png

Yeah sorry not the same thing as much as you want it to be. But you seem willing to die on this hill over and over again so I’m just gonna agree to disagree here :slight_smile:

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Denying it doesn’t make it false. Blizzard has two points of contension: One Alliance and one Horde to make it obscenely apparent that she is betraying the Horde.

And let’s not forget Ogmot’s dream journal,

Today smoke rises up from da campfire. Smoke tells Ogmot good story.
Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.
Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!
Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!
Ogmot laugh too!

If only he knew how right he was. Even players are casting themselves off of the hill.

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Why do you do it? Why do you continue to argue with these people bro lol. They never gonna accept you’re correct until the end of BfA when Sylvanas isn’t Warchief anymore, then they gonna cry.

Boredom tbh.

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Literally everyone doubts Sylvanas. Your Lordaeron argument has been silly from day one and has only gotten moreso as Baine has drawn the line and broken away for the same core reasons you project with a drastically less significant scenario.

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People keep fighting for her even though she mass murdered, mass damned, and permanently mass enslaved the Horde and the Alliance.

Arthas was evil for said action.
But Sylvanas? We’re following her off of the cliff.

That doesn’t mean it’s done without doubt.

Still no.

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