Disagree. I did it. For weeks. And it felt awful not getting anything I wanted to drop. Now at least I can do m+ and remain competitive.
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I mean tier isnât really a problem with the catalyst anyway.
People still do normal early anyway.
So it wouldnât change a thing.
Thatâs the thing though, guildâs that are forcing people to run M+ are going to start doing splits if that avenue of gearing went away.
A non-CE guild isnât forcing anyone to do M+. Whenever I see that claim, you pull the personâs logs and see itâs actually the raid lead being too nice to tell them their damage sucks, and pushing them to do something/anything to get it up.
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No because M+ is way more accessible for many. Locking more days for raids isnât.
I mean, if you see guilds where no one does M+ I would run away. Mostly bad players donât keep up with stuff like that and Iâd rather not play with them.
Yet youâd see very fast who depended on m+ gear when whatever you wish to happen does happen.
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The thing is good players will do both the grind and have skills.
Sure if again youâre playing with terrible players M+ wonât fix it but that was never the point.
Content is balanced around you getting M+ gear, if you arenât you are making content harder for you and slowing your progression.
If it wasnât we would get something like Emerald nightmare raid.
It definitely has ruined raid progression for a lot of people, but the raids can still be a fun social experience. M+ gearing isnât a Genie that can be put back in the bottle though. I donât know how theyâd fix it other than giving each type of content their own version of pvp style gear scaling, which seems like it would be cumbersome and unfun.
Yes, we have had easy raids/bosses. People complain.
Yes and people will complain about everything.
Which is why you need to see what the problems are.
There are multiple type of solutions to make raiding in itself better and to reduce the amount of M+ people need to do in a season just for gear if they already raid. Because I think it makes sense that if people want to raid that they do not feel like having to put as much time in side content.
Easy raids/bosses are a problem when hard content goal is⌠to be hard. But if they do not tune on borrowed powers and M+ gear grinds thatâs something that would happen.
Ok, please enlighten us on possible solutions that doesnât negatively impact those that exclusively do m+, and those that do both willingly for fun, as I am. Cause so far Iâve seen none.
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Buffing crest drops like itâs been said many time is one of the easy solution. Make heroic raid drop aspects and make normal drop wyrms.
Buffing raid loot drops by 30-50% so it feels more like a bigger chunk of the items you can get weekly than it currently is.
Adding back bonus rolls so people can save them and get some catchup if extending on a boss and that it would balance the start of a raid more vs m+, as M+ is spammable early it gets more loot so with bonus rolls raiding would also get more loot early as youâd be able to save them for raid opening.
Those are the âlow costâ solutions.
Capping the vault to less than 8 M+ to 4 weekly would also be a really good start. Or you know change the model to be if doing a +20 then you get 3 slots or something like that that emphase difficulty over quantity so we can go back to doing mostly one weekly after the first weeks like it was in Legion/BFA.
As stupid an idea i think it is too, the only way to get the raiders into a spot where they can happily raid log and be happy youâd have to hard separate the pve gear completely, as well as put in a hard cap on how much gear you can get and upgrade, and that cap can be reached exclusively thru raiding.
That way whether you raid log or not, thered be no way to get more gear than anyone, short of being lucky and getting raid drops.
Already stated that wouldnât work. Unless youâre saying youâre ok with farming the same raid 4 times, yet take a stand against doing keys.
M+ would still be better because of the lack of lockout.
Thatâs what the vault is for.
Actually the only thing I agree in your stuff, although the reason is different. But people arenât doing m+ for the vault so that already falls flat.
I would seriously consider quitting if that happens. But it shouldnât and will not happen so weâre safe.
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It would work better than what we got.
Sure but if the goal is to make the gap smaller itâs still better.
The vault is way better and toward M+, I just do not believe you care about raiding.
Bonus rolls do not work the same way like I explained.
I do raid, at my own pace, with the same guild since SoO, that has never and will never require m+ participation. I do cause I love it.
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And that doesnât change that those changes would be better for raiding than not.
I donât see why you would disagree unless you prefer the statu quo, which is way worse.
Your guild hasnât even gotten Aotc of the current tier when pugs are ahead, thatâs how far behind that kind of experience is. And you might not realize that for most players that just isnât good.
Iâm not inherently for the status quo, just, the changes you proposed wouldnât remove your supposed necessity to do m+. Until you propose a change that removes the necessity to m+ whilst not separating them, Iâll stick with the status quo. Because in my opinion, the problem is with the players as it stands now, not with the system.
I think making M+ less necessary is a win.
Completely removing M+ would need a split which you said you didnât want, you asked the question I got the answer.
Else Iâm all in for the split if thatâs truly all or nothing but thatâs not what this is only about.
I think thatâs just a terrible point of view to have to think it canât be better.
Oh but it is about that. No other change ever proposed has ever made it useless to run m+ for raid loggers, which is what they want.
No, you canât strawman that.
Itâs not your point of view or opinion.
If anything, youâre barely concerned by the subject as youâre disconnected already from M+.