It would be wild if they didn’t JUST aim to make m+ feel like raid prog. Also you should do both Ilvl isn’t everything. There are certain items from both sets of content I need due to the way secondary stats are laid out. 10 ilvl bellow heroic is a wild suggestion. I’ll tell you I heal just as hard as I do in a 24 as I do in the mythic raid. If not harder. I feel the effort is justified.
You said you would play with terrible players if you were to stick to raid logging. Those terrible players would be just as terrible if they were also doing m+. A terrible player is a terrible player, no matter how many ilvl one has.
No because good players push content early and do everything they can so the group goes better. You’re assuming that bad players can do content early and they can’t. Which is why if you are only doing raid log you’ll end up with that kind of players.
Even a +27 barely scratch the top end of mythic raiding and to be fair there isn’t much reason to compare both content when you could just split them up when M+ goal isn’t to be an endgame loot system but a catchup system and weekly grind. If it wasn’t the goal they would have capped the loot drops long ago.
Dude this topic is 1k posts, and isn’t the first of its kind. Surely with the amount of people who straight up hate m+, you’d gather a sizable amount of decent people that wouldn’t mind raid logging no?
The entry barrier is the toughest to break. That’s why I stick to casual heroic.
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The content is balanced around doing what you can to beat it, even if people would want to do this it would be a worse experience.
I’ve asked before if anyone could find a CE guild that does no m+. Good luck with that.
I do not “hate M+” I just feel it shouldn’t be as needed to have fun while raiding. The same reason why we got rid of borrowed powers grind.
Nowhere similar. Borrowed power affected all pillars and was a massive pain in the butt with alts.
This is 100% true. But if M+ did not exist, those players would be doing splits. They would be doing pvp for gear. They farm rep on three alts to boost their main.
They can’t help themselves. And that is okay. It’s also okay to not want to play this game like a second job to compete with those players.
What doesn’t make sense, in an mmorpg, is to to raid log 4-6 hours a week, and expect the game design to stop everyone else’s progress, so that you can be on equal footing with players that invest more time.
Disagree. In DF, we have seen what happens when the barriers to entry are too low and fotm rerolling becomes too meta.
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And doing 8 M+ on each alts isn’t a pain each week? If your goal is to mainly raid? Moreover when the crest system can only be catched up with M+?
Which is why at minimum people are asking for heroic raids to drop aspect crest.
Doesn’t really work. You would still need wyrm crests. But you would have no way to get them.
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Sorta your fault for missing a week. Although I will agree on that. If you’re behind more than a weekly cap, raid should give more crests.
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You’d do normal raid for wyrm. That’s how it would work.
That’s kinda the logical approach.
And now you have an issue with the 4 first stages of the champion track, which is what normal drops. So now you gotta get drake, what next, you’re gonna say raid loggers are happy doing mandatory LFR to catch up on lower crests?
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But it wouldn’t cap crests… And just to clarify. Raid loggers don’t want to do 4 keys a week for crests, but the will clear lfr/ normal? Ok.
Won’t do 4 keys, cause “they are boring, repetitive content.” Will do raid on 4 difficulties, including LFR…
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That’s not really a problem anyway that we’re trying to solve atm.
The goal is not to write up the complete solution.
But as far as I know drakes aren’t a problem.
Raid logers normally do so because they like raid content, clearing normal early is something that happened before and is fine with most people. Doing 40 keys in 2 weeks early on is not close to the same level.
Why not? Cause normal is way below you?
Because that’s details that I haven’t found a problem with right now.
And the goal isn’t to find the solutions to all details but where the problems arise.
If drakes become a problem then maybe the upgrade system is at fault there not the crests.
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Not really. It was one of the primary complaints about warforge/ titanforge.
If you’re doing 40 keys first 2 weeks and aren’t in a hall of fame guild, you either really like M+, or something is wrong with you.
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Fixed that for you.
not comparable as I said early.
Having to clear normal for tier drops for example is something people have done and isn’t a problem.
I mean that depends on rng but I’d say many people will do close to 20+ keys.
This season is a bit worse as they reset gear level more.
If you aren’t chance you are doing split runs.