But that is what people are asking for. The old style of “progression.” Mythic bosses are going to be tuned for people at heroic ilvl+. Whether that comes from clearing heroic for a few weeks or from M+.
Lowering that tuning might get more people in. But we tried Emerald Nightmare. People complained it was too easy. That is how we got nighthold.
I’d also point out we used to have a whole extra week before Mythic unlocked after heroic did, so most guilds went into Mythic with 2 full clears under their belts as opposed to one. I would absolutely not be opposed to this coming back.
So, you are saying that you aren’t skilled enough to complete the content without a gear crutch that seemingly lots of others don’t need?
Max recently said “two weeks in, you have all the gear you need to clear mythic” needing anything else is a skill issue.
If your group finds itself needing re-clears, and or M+ gear. Likely, you aren’t skilled enough to be clearing the content you are, without that crutch.
Season 4 would be perfect for this imo. Let it rip up through heroic and see how it goes.
Guilty as charged. This could be solved with dinars or a dinar-like system where even if a boss doesn’t have your drop it’s worth killing.
Is this based on #1? Or are you saying people don’t really enjoy raiding enough to do it for anything but loot?
To be clear, I enjoy raid and M+ both. They challenge me in different ways that help me improve as a player.
Agreed, unclear why they changed this.
I think people generally don’t enjoy pug / non linear raiding without loot incentives, but Mythic raiding is something separate and the only real way to enjoy it thoroughly at this point is to not care much about loot because there’s so little of it there for the purpose of progress anyway.
Raiding in an organised environment and hopping from pug to pug doing 1-2 bosses at a time going through multiple rebuilds are honestly incomparable experiences.
Hard to solve. They used to give us mythic loot from war tables that we didn’t earn. We didn’t like it. They also moved huge items to the last boss or two to chase, which seems cool, but the reality is that for most people, they extend then spend several weeks/ months progging the last few bosses, that by the time you get the chase item, the tier is over for you.
And the only thing to do with it is meme parse runs.
Or push keys, which is the other problem.
Mythic Raiders - It’s not about loot, we don’t care about loot at all.
Forum - Ok, cap all loot at heroic raiding level. Keep mythic, but just make it that much harder.
Mythic Raiders - oh um … NO! **cries in lootgoblin - the hardest content gets the best rewards! You don’t need gear anyways, you only do LFR.
Honestly I have no objections to this. Mythic+ already stops being rewarding way before it becomes any fun for me. The only issue is that gear acts as a sort of soft nerf to the raid as time progresses, Mythic is not designed for 5 guilds in the world, though they are the ones to defeat it at its objective hardest.
I’d vote for single/ smaller mid tier raids like onyxia or algalon. Maybe even a hardmode or two. I liked the story of tov. But maybe I would not have if I had pulled heyla more than a few meme tries.
But I don’t know if anyone really wants a repeat of crucible.
I mean, it kind of is. The top 50 or so kill it after significant nerfs. Hof after several more. The average CE guild is pulling it at a significantly easier level. I was shocked at watching top guilds just pop everything and aoe it all on Cenarius knowing that we couldn’t kill the first dragon.
I just find it amusing because extrinsic motivation (incentives) is the primary motivational factor of humanity. Basic behavioral psychology.
It has been in the past. Then they hard nerf it so normies can accomplish it, then they nerf it again later, so the hall of fame will actually fill up. This has happened over and over and over again.
Might be changing a bit now, but still.
My guild had many tiers where we just skipped normal last boss after a day or two worth of attempts to just go in heroic faster.
This expansion has been a joke though.
Yup, that’s how I feel about it too at least. Wouldn’t that be an argument to remove lockouts up through heroic then? Might even be one for making raids less linear.
If it’s me I’m putting in some dinar/currency to use on targeting items that make it worth it to kill every boss.
Pretty confident saying a version of dinar will come back for s4.
I’d expect it for S4 too, but they need it in every season. They can even start with it similar to what they did catalyst. Have it come with .5 patches and see how it goes.
It has already been confirmed so… yep.
What a bummer. I don’t get why they keep holding onto this pure RNG style of loot when frustration about that is always so incredibly high.
You gotta read what I write, pushing for M+ title. In S2 only 1300 characters pushed above +25 while the highest key was still over +30. Doing one or two levels over the rewards is generally not considered pushing. Currently I’m doing +24s and I wouldn’t consider it pushing because the season is just that easy.
Anyway.
The problem is how M+ gear affects everything else, like said before lot of people would be pretty happy to leave M+ alone if it didn’t matter as much for raiding.
The point is that ramping up gearing speed at this point is stupid, so while yes buffing raiding loot would make sense with current M+ design other solutions would be more realist.
Equalizing at minimum crest drops so heroic raid loot drop aspect crest would be a start.
I will fight teeth and nails against a gear divide.