Watches Dwel reply to me but quote people who aren’t me.
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Those guilds need some form of power creep. It’s partially why we had ap, essences or free passive power like the hp/ dmg bonus from the artifact or neck. Or why corruption continued to scale into narnia.
I don’t see how it can be fixed. Raids/ bosses can’t be challenging for the race/ top 50 while stilli be achievable by the top 500-1000 without massive power creep or nerfs.
They have talked about this in pvp. Pve/pvp hybrid players have felt compelled to take pve vault options and focus on pve the first couple weeks, which puts them behind in in pvp and as a result… they have stopped queuing.
Now, pvp only players wonder why queue times are so long…
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Maybe he’s making sure you’re still here lol
I think that largely depends on the tuning Vs ilvl curve. The one factor that needs consideration is extension. Right now guilds continue to acquire ilvl from the mythic+ vault even when extending on the later bosses. If that were no longer the case people would probably need to reclear more (Though not to reach the same ilvl they do now) and that could impact 2 and some 3 day guilds.
Or make the vault a purely mythic+ thing and redesign the weekly bad luck protection system for raiding to better suit how progression raiding operates.
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There is, of course, the notion of making extending more convenient. Individual boss skips available after a single kill, for example.
I sincerely appreciate the comment and agree with that perspective. But I got thrown off by this:
And started picturing N’Zoth and Mr. Tumnus in the same room…
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Back when Brewa was a Vulpera, I used to roleplay him as a dual-wielding swashbuckler mouse like Reepicheep.
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It took my guilds 200-300 pulls on jaina, ashara and nzoth. Raiding 2 days a week, took us nearly 2 months, extending.
With less gear and having to reclear? Don’t think we get a single CE. Maybe that is okay.
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Yes, but that does not necessarily equate to the outcome or comment you made. The point is not that “If we make m+ garbage m+ers will have to raid” that’s a terrible, spiteful notion that I fully agree with you would fall flat on its face.
Its that those players who left, left because the time commitment for the content and level they had been playing at for years vastly increased. And the hope is that, through reducing that time commitment (By separating the ilvl curve and tuning of progression raiding from mythic+) players who are attracted to / have in the past progression raided but have been turned away from external commitments would maybe find their place again.
As you say it’s very difficult to adjust mythic+ in a way that wouldn’t be detrimental, but as we’re not the ones physically doing it I’m not sure why hoping for a solution should be met with such vitriol. I get m+ is a great content pillar for many people, I get that you’re rightly protective of it and honestly I also massively enjoy it and have pushed title multiple times which took a lot more raw time than getting CE ever has.
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I’ll be honest I don’t think that’s ok, I think were there a solution to the gearing curve increase it’d need to also account for extension and that, as we’ve said, the mythic raid vault is wholly unfit for purpose when it comes to guilds like this.
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The simple fact is that if you are good enough to do heroic raids, you’re usually good enough to do 16-19 keys. And those 16-19 keys end up being far more rewarding for less effort.
So little usable loot drops in the raid, especially in the smaller sizes, it’s virtually impossible to get useful drops before you gear from M+.
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I hit reply on your post when I meant to select somebody else’s. My bad for summoning you back to the thread.
Shouldn’t the solution be to adjust loot drops in raids, rather than messing with M+?
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It’d be a good start - but even if raids dropped double the loot M+ is still an easier/quicker gearing method.
One of the biggest changes that needs to be made to M+ is that GV slots should only be awarded by timed keys, or alternatively not reward the super-inflated ilvl for untimed keys.
I legit didn’t know this was a thing.
Yeah, I would support that change.
Not awarding GV slots entirely would be a disaster for the PUG experience. We already have people calling for punishments for those who leave their keys; while I don’t support those suggestions, the situations of people leaving would skyrocket. I can get behind the item level being knocked down a peg, though.
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I feel like this is how it used to be. Loot was definitely impacted in some way when you didn’t time it.
The key depleted. Had to redo the key for free in order to re-pull.
There is not a fix for those players. They got used to raid logging for 4-6 hours in tiers that lasted 8 months.
Don’t think I intended it to reach that level. But we have gotten to the point, that these systems and the overall game, have gotten so complicated and the game has lost so much content, to appease a group of players that will never be happy, until they can WoD raid log.
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No, I mean specifically the loot, either quality or quantity. I want to say in BFA, if you didn’t time it, fewer pieces would drop.
Edit - going back to read, I see that poster was specifically referring to Great Vault loot. I don’t think that was impacted, though, and wouldn’t be opposed to that changing.
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Yes. 3 for timing, 2 for completion.
Would lead to a lot more leavers. Would also lead to less people pushing. Why would I push keys and risk no gv rewards, if I had limited play time?
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