Know a lot of people pugging CE?
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Cross-realm guilds will be a disaster for what little remains of the gameâs social fabric.
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Im not talking about ce as it doesnt apply to this discussion.
Then why did you refer to â19 other peopleâ?
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Thatâs true. Merge 4 dead servers and in the end itâs still a dead server.
The people who didnât have time or motivation to stick to a schedule havenât raided in a guild anyway. They just didnât do it or killed a few bosses via a trade channel group and that was it. Thatâs why Blizzard implemented the LFR in the first place, because so few players saw the raids and they wanted to make it available more easily for a broader audience.
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20 being an average raid size? Would 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16 been better?
If bliz made m+ less rewarding overall for raiders, Iâm hesitant to say not rewarding because Iâm not personally a fan of iron curtain design in general, then the raid would have to be tuned around a new, much slower and on average lower, ilvl curve which is honestly a good thing.
Also the mythic raid vault slots need work. I donât know how exactly but theyâre such a failure when you look at how mythic raid teams operate and progress.
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The Great Vault was implemented as insurance. It was created to offer M+ players choices so it wasnât just a roll of the dice on that ONE item in their weekly chest.
Raidingâs Great Vault needs to be insurance, but that requires a different approach to meet the different needs of raiding.
Specifically, Great Vault for raiding needs to fill a role like unemployment insurance. To be used when you arenât killing any bosses, during extend progression.
So hereâs how it should work: You kill bosses, you get âVault Pointsâ. You pay Vault Points to unlock boxes in the Great Vault. (Again, this is for RAIDING ONLY.) And the boxes have exponentially increasing unlock prices, so you get a lot more out of unlocking 1 or 2 boxes a week for 4 weeks than spending the same points to unlock a 3rd box for weeks when youâre actually killing bosses to unlock 1 or 2 boxes already
The point of this is that, while youâre extending, you spend those Great Vault points youâve been accumulating all tier, to keep the loot flow coming in when youâre on extend and arenât getting boxes anymore, because youâre not killing bosses.
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Also I disagree that ilvl / gear doesnât have a huge impact on mythic raid bosses. You canât overgear not doing mechanics, certainly, but ilvl has a huge impact on how many of a mechanic you have to deal with in a fight or phase, as well as makes things like healing absorbs (Which this raid has a lot of) way less dangerous.
On our last nymue rekill we skipped an entire intermission phase.
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This is why I love GD.
First post: âRaiding is designed for limit. That is bad. Design for the masses!!!1111!!!â
Second post: âDungeons too easy. The masses complete them and like it getting gear. This is bad!!!111!!â
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Given these statements pertain to two different things, it is entirely possible that they can both be held at to be true at the same time without contradicting eachother.
I can understand disagreeing with one or both of them, but posing them as opposites just makes you look stupid.
I know itâs all speculation, but Iâm curious how you think this would be received by raiders. I see a lot of folks talk about getting AOTC week one, then moving on to mythic, maybe in week one, but definitely by week two. If M+ was less rewarding or walled off, and the raid was tuned accordingly, Iâm assuming progression speed would also slow, thereby leading to AOTCs in later weeks, perhaps? Starting mythic after several weeks or a month? (Iâm not referring to RWF guilds here, but your average guild out there that enjoys hitting up mythic raid, possibly getting CE within a couple weeks of the end of the tier.)
I could absolutely see some folks loving this more casual, slowed-down approach, but also wonder if others would be frustrated with the change in cadence.
How so? Mythic raiding exists for a few players. Race, Top 50, Hof, Race to world last. Each group completes the content with increasing nerfs, until imo, it really stops being mythic.
The âmassesâ will never see mythic. Any mythic. It is nearly impossible to preserve what mythic is and have it be accessible at the same time.
So we get m+. Which kills half a dozen birds with one stone. Players spent most of S1 and S2 complaining about the difficulty. And blizzard listened. Itâs easier now. But only something like 8% of players will get all the portals.
I have no idea why WoD raid loggers think that if M+ will go away, it would convice us all to raid or die again.
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AOTC for most CE guilds since Aberrus hasnât only been week 1 but day 1 in last seasonâs gear (Even with the 39 ilvl jump). At worst itâd make the end boss on heroic a week 2 affair which honestly seems more healthy.
Not to mention it revives the concept of AOTC progression for AOTC guilds as if they needed gear to overcome the mechanics / skill required for it then itâll take them a little bit longer.
Worth noting that m+ would and should still absolutely help players get out of their previous season gear and help them get ilvl to handle heroic raiding. Thereâs also the free tier token which I think was a great addition to the game.
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Oh, careful - youâre gonna get an all CAPS rant. As I gather, itâs not about bringing more people into raiding - itâs about stopping the bleeding of raiders away from raiding because they donât want to spend 6 days a week working a M+ job in order to raid. Or something like that.
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Nobody here has argued for this, nobody here has stated this is an expected outcome, I think at this point youâre just arguing with caricatures inside your own head as opposed to anyone here.
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Mate, several people in this thread have stated multiple times, that m+ killed their guilds/ friends lists/ the âraid community.â
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That might be the worst suggestion Iâve ever read on these forums.
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Do you think it would make CE less accessible for those semi-casual/hardcore guilds who just strive for it by the end of the season?
I know youâre not a fortune teller, but I think you have more insight and objectivity, without a lot of the emotions that come with hating M+.
Sure, and my point wasnât to challenge that the suggestion is completely without merit. I was bringing it up to highlight the hypocrisy in claiming the separation is required so that one group of people can cut back on their play time without acknowledging it would ultimately increase the play time of another group. The end result may be a net positive because the first group is doing something they donât want out of a sense of obligation while the second is enjoying their activities in both.
This could create pressure for players who start in one form of content and then try to get into the other form, though. Letâs say for the first 4 weeks of a season my work schedule prevents me from joining raid but I can run keys. Then when I do get to join my raid team, Iâm undergeared for where they are because my M+ gear that previously would have been good enough is now pretty awful.