Oh, I get that part. But the entire reason raiders push M+ is to make that progression easier with better gear. What you’re asking for with the whole “wall off M+” is for raids to be made easier so gear matters less? So that raiders can keep skipping normal and heroic and get right to mythic…where the good gear is?
You can’t tell me that if M+ was walled off and raids were made easier, that CE guilds wouldn’t require their players to keep farming normal and heroic for better gear for progression through mythic so they can keep getting better gear.
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Eh, I think folks would just quit, honestly.
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Of course not, a lot of mechanics can’t be skipped with more gear. But most of them get a lot easier to handle or there are less mechanics that have to be done. There’s a reason why Nyalotha was so easy and guilds who didn’t get CE before suddenly did. Corruption traits contributed a lot to making fights easier and shorter.
I think you’re missing the point here. A lot of people find M+ boring, and they don’t want to run that content, but as long as it rewards Mythic raid level gear through the vault, there is going to be a ton of social pressure to run it.
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It’s mostly to avoid 1-shots. That’s how fights are designed, these days.
Everybody has to soak Brand of Damnation, for example. That’s 500k right there. Add another 300k from Seeking Inferno right afterwards. This is all rapid-fire damage, too.
Tone down the 1-shot damage and gear becomes way less important.
I’m not, though. I’m 100% cool with the idea of wallling them off. It wouldn’t affect me one bit. But I think people would quit. And that sucks.
It sucks even more how many raiders have quit since M+ was added, because of M+ turning raiding into a second job.
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Honestly, just looking over your profile, I think you’re wading into topics that are just beyond your experience level here. No offense.
I’m sure that’s true, too. But I don’t think walling off those two would suddenly make people raid more.
Oh for goodness sake…
IT’S NOT ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE RAID MORE
IT’S ABOUT STOPPING RAIDERS QUITTING THE GAME BECAUSE M+ TURNS RAIDING INTO A 6-NIGHT-A-WEEK ACTIVITY THAT PEOPLE DON’T HAVE TIME FOR
HOW
MANY
TIMES
DO
I
HAVE
TO
REPEAT
THIS
BEFORE
PEOPLE
READ
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I’m sorry, but you’re a level 25 classic toon. I don’t think you understand retail. No offense.
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I can’t emphasize enough how many players this game lost when M+ started to be pushed as a pillar of end game. A lot of folks on these forums live in an echo chamber, cherry-picking incomplete data as a means to show M+ popular.
Spend some time on Reddit, or playing other MMOs, and the amount of WoW refugees out there that quit the game because the game became a full time job is staggering.
Okay, but come back when you have some actual experience, until then, your opinions are just widely misinformed.
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Making them separate would cause people that do both willingly and for fun quit. How’s that any better?
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Well, best of luck for your crusade, Brewa. Like I said, I’m fine with walling it off. I hope it goes well for you. 
PVP is walled off, and it works just fine. We have a perfect example of this concept in the game right now lol.
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That’s like a dozen people.
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In my guild, most of the team despises M+.
Same. People do it. They have to do it.
Although the majority of my old friends quit the game in BfA. Because of M+/AP turning raiding into a full-time job.
The top 2 guilds on our server went belly-up in BfA, too. Both Top 50 guilds. People with careers and family simply cannot spend 6 days a week just to raid.
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PvP you can also buy armor, uses currency you can only acquire in pvp, and scales up in pvp. It’s a whole different world. You can also do either with either sets of armor, you’re not naked.
So, make M+ work the same way lol. It is not that hard here. The developers are just too lazy, or they like that raiders have to grind M+ to pad those played time metrics.
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